The Duke and Duchess of Sussex have bizarrely spent the whole week on the backfoot, fighting a losing PR battle against a decrepit monarchy. How did we even get here? I’m sure Meghan is asking herself that. It all started when the Lord Chamberlain sent out “guidance” to British “stakeholders” about the Sussexes’ royal status, or as it turns out, their lack of royal status. The palace announced that the Sussexes are in the UK as “private citizens” and that they should not be confused with working royals, half-in royals or even royal-adjacents. First, the Sussexes’ spokesperson said this on the record: “We were a little surprised not to have been told about this in advance.” It later turned out that the palace did give them about 50 minutes’ notice, but the point is that the Sussexes were mad that they couldn’t suggest changes to the palace’s letter. Which… I’ll defend Harry and Meghan on most things, but that’s actually kind of a bonkers position to take?
About 36 hours after the palace’s clarification, Team Sussex spoon-fed a briefing to the Telegraph where they took issue specifically with the “private citizens” reference, especially in regard to what it could mean to Harry’s years-long UK security fight. Sources emphasized that the “private citizens” term “rankles.” Team Sussex made it somewhat clear to the Telegraph that this was not merely an argument over the technicalities of private citizenship, but rather a larger discussion about UK security and how, as “public figures,” they’re in need of police protection. Team Sussex then decided to feed another exclusive briefing to People Magazine about this pedantic “private citizens” issue.
Sources close to Prince Harry and Meghan Markle are pushing back on new guidance issued by King Charles this week describing the couple’s position as “akin to private citizens.”
While the Duke and Duchess of Sussex are no longer working members of the royal family and do not represent the monarch, those close to them point to the reality that they remain highly recognizable public figures — a distinction that also carries implications for their privacy and security, particularly following their return to Britain.
“They are public figures,” a source close to the couple tells PEOPLE. “Members of the public know who they are. The idea that they can live a normal, ‘private’ life is sadly not realistic.”
Those close to the couple also argue that if Harry and Meghan were private individuals, the Lord Chamberlain would not have needed to issue a letter of formal guidance.
On Sept. 7, King Charles issued a letter via the Lord Chamberlain, Lord Benyon, clarifying the Duke and Duchess of Sussex’s status as non-working royals amid their recent return to the U.K. The letter stated that Harry and Meghan are “no longer working Members of The Royal Family” and said their position, including the “personal latitude it brings the couple in respect of financial independence and protection of their privacy as they would wish,” would continue to be respected. “In short, their position is akin to private citizens with commercial and charitable interests,” the letter continued.
The distinction is particularly significant given Harry’s long-running concerns over security in the U.K. The Duke has maintained that his family’s public profile leaves them facing security risks despite no longer being working royals, and he has been fighting for a review of the security arrangements that apply to him and his family while in Britain.
The King’s letter itself draws a distinction between the couple’s status and their security, stating that “operational security issues” should continue to be directed to the relevant police authorities.
Those close to Harry and Meghan similarly argue that describing the couple as public figures does not change their status as non-working royals. Rather, they say, it reflects the practical reality that Harry and Meghan remain internationally recognizable individuals whose ability to move through public life anonymously is limited.
The letter also reiterated that Prince Harry and Meghan should not use their His/Her Royal Highness (HRH) styles and said that questions from official and state organizations about courtesies extended to them — particularly where public funds may be involved — should be directed to Buckingham Palace. Palace insiders have pointed out that the letter does not represent a new policy, instead reiterating the terms agreed upon at the “Sandringham Summit” of January 2020.
The couple received notice and details about the King’s letter only about an hour before it was released to the media, PEOPLE understands, with a spokesman for the couple saying they were “a little surprised not to have been told about this in advance.”
My for-real opinion is that it’s a distinction without a difference. Yes, I agree, they are public figures. But are they not also private citizens? If we’re having a pedantic argument, let’s really go there. They went to Montecito to live as private citizens. They also claimed to want to live in a similar way in the UK. Is Harry mad because he actually thought he had figured out a backdoor way to be a half-in royal, and the clarification ruined his scheme? Of course, I also understand that Harry correctly hears the dog-whistle with the “private citizens” reference and he knows that his father is effectively hanging him out to dry. Who would have thought? Oh, right. All of us.
Photos courtesy of Avalon Red.
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- The Duke and Duchess of Sussex will attend the premiere of Cirque du Soleil’s Totem in support of Sentebale at the Royal Albert Hall on Wednesday 16th January. The evening will The Royal Rota should meet Ella Lynch, Kensington Palace, at door 1 at the Royal Albert Hall at 1730hrs on 16th January 2019.raise awareness and funds for Sentebale’s work with children and young people affected by HIV in southern Africa. Over the course of the evening, Their Royal Highnesses will meet representatives from Sentebale, Cirque du Soleil and Totem, including members of the cast.,Image: 535134132, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: NO UK USE FOR SEVEN DAYS – Fee Payable Upon Reproduction – For queries contact Avalon.red – sales@avalon.red London: +44 (0) 20 7421 6000 Los Angeles: +1 (310) 822 0419 Berlin: +49 (0) 30 76 212 251 Madrid: +34 91 533 4289, *** NO UK USE FOR 48 HRS ***, Model Release: no , Credit line: /Avalon
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- (left to right back row) Queen Elizabeth II, the Duke of Edinburgh, the Prince of Wales, the Duke of Cambridge, the Duchess of Cambridge, the Duke of Sussex, the Duchess of Sussex and the Princess Royal, (left to right front row) Sarah Ferguson, Princess Beatrice, Peter Phillips, Autumn Phillips, Mike Tindall, Zara Tindall, Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor and Crown Prince Pavlos of Greece at the wedding of Princess Eugenie to Jack Brooksbank at St George’s Chapel in Windsor Castle.,Image: 534311281, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: NO UK USE FOR SEVEN DAYS – Fee Payable Upon Reproduction – For queries contact Avalon.red – sales@avalon.red London: +44 (0) 20 7421 6000 Los Angeles: +1 (310) 822 0419 Berlin: +49 (0) 30 76 212 251 Madrid: +34 91 533 4289, *** NO UK USE FOR 48 HRS ***, Model Release: no, Credit line: /Avalon
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- The Duchess of Sussex and the Duke of Sussex after the wedding of Princess Eugenie to Jack Brooksbank at St George’s Chapel in Windsor Castle.,Image: 534311896, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: NO UK USE FOR SEVEN DAYS – Fee Payable Upon Reproduction – For queries contact Avalon.red – sales@avalon.red London: +44 (0) 20 7421 6000 Los Angeles: +1 (310) 822 0419 Berlin: +49 (0) 30 76 212 251 Madrid: +34 91 533 4289, Model Release: no, Credit line: – / Avalon
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- The Duke and Duchess of Sussex attend a reception at Buckingham Palace in London to mark the fiftieth anniversary of the investiture of the Prince of Wales.,Image: 535533720, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: NO UK USE FOR SEVEN DAYS – Fee Payable Upon Reproduction – For queries contact Avalon.red – sales@avalon.red London: +44 (0) 20 7421 6000 Los Angeles: +1 (310) 822 0419 Berlin: +49 (0) 30 76 212 251 Madrid: +34 91 533 4289, *** NO UK USE FOR 48 HRS ***, Model Release: no , Credit line: /Avalon
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- Royal Ascot, United Kingdom, Prince Harry, Duke of Sussex and his wife Meghan, Duchess of Sussex,Image: 536132559, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no, Credit line: Sorge / Andreas Bastian (Caro) / Avalon
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- Britain’s Prince Harry, Duke of Sussex (L) and Britain’s Meghan, Duchess of Sussex (R) arrive to attend the European premiere of the film The Lion King in London on July 14, 2019.,Image: 536655781, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: NO UK USE FOR SEVEN DAYS – Fee Payable Upon Reproduction – For queries contact Avalon.red – sales@avalon.red London: +44 (0) 20 7421 6000 Los Angeles: +1 (310) 822 0419 Berlin: +49 (0) 30 76 212 251, Model Release: no, Credit line: – / Avalon
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- Britain’s Prince Harry and Meghan, Duchess of Sussex, arrive to attend the WellChild Awards Ceremony in London, Britain, October 15, 2019.,Image: 539463388, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: NO UK USE FOR SEVEN DAYS – Fee Payable Upon Reproduction – For queries contact Avalon.red – sales@avalon.red London: +44 (0) 20 7421 6000 Los Angeles: +1 (310) 822 0419 Berlin: +49 (0) 30 76 212 251, *** NO UK USE FOR 48 HRS ***, Model Release: no , Credit line: /Avalon
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- Meghan, Duchess of Sussex, looks at Britain’s Prince Harry during the WellChild Awards pre-Ceremony reception in London, Britain, October 15, 2019.,Image: 539463443, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: NO UK USE FOR SEVEN DAYS – Fee Payable Upon Reproduction – For queries contact Avalon.red – sales@avalon.red London: +44 (0) 20 7421 6000 Los Angeles: +1 (310) 822 0419 Berlin: +49 (0) 30 76 212 251, *** NO UK USE FOR 48 HRS ***, Model Release: no , Credit line: /Avalon
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- Mcc0092366 The Duke and Duchess of Sussex attend the 91st Field of Remembrance at Westminster Abbey, meeting veterans,Image: 540840634, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: NO UK USE FOR SEVEN DAYS – Fee Payable Upon Reproduction – For queries contact Avalon.red – sales@avalon.red London: +44 (0) 20 7421 6000 Los Angeles: +1 (310) 822 0419 Berlin: +49 (0) 30 76 212 251, Model Release: no, Credit line: – / Avalon
Will the royal letter with the private citizen reference alter his chances of getting public security?
Yesterday I didnt post this comment “Non royal private citizen living a private public life (…)” because it sounded like i was mocking them, when I’m really team sussex. This is a mess
“also understand that Harry correctly hears the dog-whistle with the “private citizens” reference and he knows that his father is effectively hanging him out to dry. Who would have thought? Oh, right. All of us.”
Sure, but I also believe that is why they aren’t selling their home in Montecito right? He’s giving his father (and family I guess) to show up as family. If they don’t NO ONE can say that Harry and Meghan did not try. It’s down to Chuck.
It’s always been down to Chuck. Harry keeps giving him chance after chance. It’s giving Lucy and the football vibes.
I think the Sussexes did not sell Montecito because they are in the UK for 1 year only to prevent sabotage and to mount counter attacks on The Invictus Games; and how right they were to do so. I don’t believe that the Sussexes are spoonfeeding messages to the press. Harry and Meghan have a habit of speaking directly to the public when they have something to say. All of this is speculation.
No matter how they frame it, Harry is and will always be a royal, a prince of the realm, son of the king and 5th in line to the throne. His birth can not be reversed,
Just give them the security for god sake’s because there are very real threats and no “private citizens” is the fifth, sixth and seventh in the LOS.. no matter what the Sussex’s do to make money wether in private endeavors or being in servitude to the firm the Sussex’s are not normal private citizens and they are not normal celebrities either no other celebrity is a few deaths from a crown.. the king has had the power to give them security just like the non working pedo Prince who has very real crimes against the country and raping trafficked children and women but some how he has never lost security from Ravec for his status change because he is the ninth in the LOS, somehow that protects him with Royal privileges (royal housing and RPO protection) but not the three in the LOS above him.
Spot on! And I would guess that the average person in the UK understands this completely even if the tabloids suggest otherwise.
It is so hard not to empathize with Harry. I keep thinking of the story he wrote in “Spare” about going to South Africa with his Pa, knowing it was an official photo op with President Mandela and the Spice Girls in the hopes of getting a little positive press, and agreeing to it all just in the futile hope of getting a little attention from his dogshit father who “had trouble communicating, trouble listening, trouble being intimate face-to-face.” It is almost as if Harry is willing to go through all this danger about a lack of security just to get some attention from his father who is incapable of caring about him. Keep up the therapy, Harry. Dogshit Charles may be your only surviving parent–and has culpability in the death of your mother–but Charles is no longer capable of change. Please keep your wife and children safe even though your father won’t keep you safe.
The armed security with govt intel is everything to Harry. For his small kids plus a wife who gets race based threats.
He also has a great uncle who was murdered by terrorists, an Aunt Anne who was kidnapped, a father and grandmother who were shot at during public events, a mom who was offed in a tunnel.
Which is why it was stupid/ill advised to make a huge public splash about moving back to the UK without a security guarantee. It becomes difficult to empathize with someone who does things they know can have catastrophic consequences rather than staying in a safe place (Montecito) with appropriately armed security.
This is in reply mainly to Tuesday. Why would Harry and Meghan give an exclusive off the record tip Harry and Meghan are moving back the the UK. They were the first to report this. They included “the king is pleased to spend time blah nlah” The Telegraph report next, same talking points but they never got an official statement. Then People got the US “exclusive” . This was leaked by the palace or someone from another government agency. Surprisingly TMZ has been the one outlet to keep it simple, “its a temporary move” and the only official statement from a rep i have read was in the NYT.
“In a statement shared with The New York Times, their rep said, “On the heels of a wonderful trip with family and friends this summer, Harry and Meghan have decided to spend an extended period in the U.K. this autumn. They are excited to have their children spend more time in the country that’s such an important part of their family’s story.”
It was a Palace leak. Harry and Meghan didn’t make a splash.
If it was a leak, what damage was done? The Sussexes still arrived in England without a hitch and from all accounts (or lack of) have settled into their new home. No pap shots were released of them at the airport and they have so far established themselves without invasive incidents. This situation has highlighted how little influence media leaks have over how Harry and Meghan live their lives. While the couple may not have announced their return in splashing lights, nonetheless it was a huge story that fortunately didn’t bring out hordes of ill-wishers attacking their motorcade. The tabloids do what they always do with whatever info they get. At this point, all the sources are interchangeable.
What is really shocking and should be shocking for the world to see is a man giving protection to his pdfile brother (and don’t think Virginia Giuffre was the only trafficked girl he had sex with…remember the flights with minors from Eastern Europe coming into the UK), but won’t give it to his own son and grandchildren.
Charles is a sociopath. It’s a long line of sociopaths, the Hapsburgs Saxe Gotha Coburgs. William is as cruel as Charles. His poor children will have to do exactly what he says when they grow up.
Can someone explain to me why the king cant/won’t fund their private security himself like he does for andrew?
merely because they do not want to. Let us not forget how these people treated the abdication and the future thereafter of the abdicated king and his wife.
You are officially dead to them once they have felt betrayed.
Charles won’t personally fund the Sussexes security because he doesn’t want them to have freedom to work and participate in charities while they are in the UK. He wants to control their movement and limit their profile. He cannot stand be upstaged. He knows they need security to be safe and denies it out of vanity and spite.
I don’t usually post before reading the thread but the headline on this thread is more than enough to dismiss this stooopid, moronic take by peoplemag.
First of all, name ONE! high-profile individuall with a PUBLIC, even global public life who has NO privacy. Think trump: do we ever see him in his home? Is he ever seen at maralago unless its a public-facing event?
Do we see Obama/Bush/Clinton/captains of industry in their homes/at private events/going shopping? That would be NO.
The thing is: what’s “normal” for worker-bees is not what’s normal for rich hi-profile people. But that doesn’t mean that the shiitmedia and randos on the internet get to go thru their garbage or stake out their homes.
Amen to that. Say it again for the people in the back! 🗣️
I mean I think we all guessed this about two weeks ago. He was in the end trying to do an end run around RAVEC and dare them to not agree that he and his family are due security while living in the UK. I just sadly think that it’s going to end with RAVEC saying they are private citizens and can see to their own security. Which is 100 percent messed up. I wish Harry would quit his terrible family. He could have easily just gotten a place in another European country so he could go back and forth to the UK as often as he wants. Whether he likes it or not, Charles and William are not going to let him set up a rival court in the UK and allow him to move about freely if they can help it.
This sums it up quite well. You can be a private citizen who is a public figure needing top level security. And it’s my understanding that some public figures who are not royal adjacent in any way routinely get this kind of security. Harry’s father does not want him in the UK sucking up the royal oxygen. I despair that Harry will never get a clue. And, yes, they already have the Portugal house to make travel to the UK easier.
I agree it’s not fair and heck his dad isn’t even as great as his grandmother who at least had her security for his family when they were in country.
You’re right. Many high profile celebs are technically private citizens who pay for their own security even though they are public figures. Taylor Swift comes to mind. She had NYC police help with her wedding but had to pay the difference for extra security and overtime out of her own pocket. As long as the RF considers Harry to be non working then I unfortunately dont see a way around it.
My suggestion would have been France. Just across the channel and a short plane ride from London. France is in the 21st century and doesn’t do royalty.
France has unfortunate associations with the Duke and Duchess of Windsor. Harry and Meghan have already been (very unfairly) compared to the Nazi abdicator and his hated wife. They will avoid France at all costs.
Harry should realize that his father won’t change.
Do the York princesses have security. They have work outside the firm did charles tell them not to use h r h. Where is the fuss about this for them
Beatrice and Eugenie have never been told not to use their HRH or that they had to put in abeyance when they got jobs. They live on royal properties in the uk so have in built security there. They don’t need police protection because they are not internationally recognised people like Harry and Meghan.
Incredible that Charles pays for their royal homes and treat them better than his son, despite the disgrace that being cozy to Epstein brought to The Firm.
If that’s the criteria, Sophie shouldn’t have security either. No one recognizes her.
The Lord Chamberlain’s letter is a legal document to which the subjects of that document have every right to question and ask for clarification. Words DO matter, as we see with this discussion of private citizens, and it’s not silly or weak for Harry’s paid (I assume legal) team to analyze and want clarification. It was deliberately rude and unprofessional for the palace not allow for time.
I think Harry and Meghan know exactly that this is a fight for them and their children to live in the UK (or anywhere) as the public figures they are, rather than be forced to pretend that they aren’t direct descendants of the king, titled, in the line of succession, and that somehow if they shrink away that people will forget this fact. They have done nothing wrong and both of them are stubborn enough to stand their ground on this.
Exactly, this isn’t a pedantic argument, it’s a legal one – and the same one that’s been going on for years.
I’ve been surprised by the lack of push back on the claim their style is in abayence which refers to a specific legal status not an informal agreement to avoid using a title. Also I must be misunderstanding something about the security fight because I would use this letter to insist the royal household no longer has any say in the security decision. After all per the royal family it’s self the government should treat H&M as private citizens not as royals
In this case, since the Sandringham agreement is not an official royal prerogative, using the term “abayence” is simply used as synonym for on hold, or not being currently used. When that term is used legally here in the UK, it is usually aligned with case law regarding statute vs. prerogative regarding how those distinctions are applied.
I recall that the HRH was only not to be used for commercial reasons, which meant that they could still use it for non commercial reasons. Government officials from other countries use it as part of the address also. Unless the newspapers have been misinforming us in the past the King has altered the conditions. without decent notice. That would be just plain bad mannered, they might need a fresh printing of headed letters which can’t be done on an hours notice for example
@sunniside up
The agreement only said that the HRH was not to be used. It wasn’t on a case by case basis, just the broad brush. I’m not intending to be argumentative, only looked up the specifics myself when the letter was released.
I’m sorry, but the new PM not interfering is piss poor.
The letter was not a legal document, it was issued as a guidance only.
I was wondering about that, I hadn’t previously heard anyone refer to that letter as a legal document. How could it be?
Charles could have had two more working royals but messed that up. Now he has a pouty heir and wife keen who never really contributed much to work. He backed the sullen heir and not the second son .
Charles is dumb as a doorknob and a weakling. Bringing those two for some engagements would have helped the crown which is full of old people and a very troubled separated couple.
He lets the mistress and the anger issues mentally unstable son buzz in his ears, and those racist men in grey.
Regardless of what status Harry and Meghan have in the eyes of the palace, their children, Prince Archie and Princess Lilibet, are young school-aged royals who aren’t expected to work yet. Doesn’t THEIR status justify security, the same way I’m sure Charlotte and Louis have security as royal school children?
I get their position because in the UK the press reports on their every move. Even though the Palace says they’re private citizens the press doesn’t treat them like that and give them a chance the press will invade Harry and Meghan’s privacy.
Yeah, i said the other day that they are in a unique position that most other people in the world are not. They’re not celebrities per se – most celebrities can go quiet for months and the press basically ignores them (look at freaking Taylor Swift. She hasn’t really been out and about publicly since her wedding – a few pap shots here and there – and while there was about a week of post wedding stories, for the most part the press has just…..talked about someone else.) Meghan can go months without being seen and the press will still run 20 stories a day abotu WHERE IS MEGHAN.
So they are 100% public figures and they will never not be public figures.
Are they public figures supported by the taxpayers?? no. And that seems to be the unspoken bit, right? only taxpayer supported royals get the protection harry wants.
I bet the Cotswolds is filled with reporters and paparazzi waiting all day in their cars for a shot.
truly – what on earth did charles say in july that made harry think that charles would in any way support him getting back security? he clearly read too much into it, or charles was having him on.
I appreciate the argument that archie is starting school and if he didn’t start in the uk now, socially etc it’s harder, if you don’t start school with everyone else. I don’t love that argument because I think they could have just doubled down and invested in california, but fine if he wants them to have a british education so they aren’t treated differently than their peers (and I mean this in more of the ‘peers of the realm’ type thing).
but the thing is – they will be unfortunately, I think, not super welcomed by that group. kids and especially as kids get older, are going to comment about their parents, particularly about meghan in the uk. the majority of normal people support them, but among the people who are cousins of william and harry etc? they are not supportive. if they had been, meghan and harry may not have had to leave because then they would have had more friends around them sticking up for them, helping meghan not feel so alone etc, but instead they had people around them who love calling piers morgan and sitting down with jeremy clarkson. they want to protect the crown and the entire system, not do anything that even appears to put it in jeopardy or change it. and while harry and meghan technically didn’t want to change it, it was easy to make it look or sound like they did, and that is all it took.
When did Harry say he believed his father would support him in getting security? He has never said that. So unless you can read his mind that’s a lot of projection.
The kids will be fine at school. They are so young the kids aren’t going to be talking about tabloid gossip.
Kids talk about what they hear at home. I have no doubt that some tabloid gossip will make its way to Archie’s and Lili’s little ears. It is what it is atp.
@Anna: what is so stunning to me is Harry’s insistence on the kids being indoctrinated in their “royal heritage”. Yikes! Like they need to know all about the racism, colonialism, resource theft, and slave trading of the family they had the misfortune of being born into. And the kids themselves are mixed race. Give them a break!
Those raggedy Windsors are awful people. The one aunt, uncles, and cousins, not one gave them support. Just wanting to live off the taxpayers too.
You can disagree with Harry without claiming, falsely, that he wants back in. He clearly moved back for security and for invictus
Exactly, there is a lot of projection going on considering Harry has never said he wants to be a working royal or perform royal duties. Why are people claiming to know Harry’s mind and to know exactly what he wants?
Where are you all getting he moved back for Invictus? Cause he never said that. We are all speculating outside of the spokesman recent mess that they confirmed on the record about the letter and then about the Diana awards, but other than that, he’s never once said he moved back for that. And all we have is that the RR for months said that Harry has been telling his friends he missed the UK and wanted his kids educated there and that’s the only thing that fits for why the moved back.
This is an on the record response to the New York Times from their communications team:
In a statement shared with The New York Times, their rep said, “On the heels of a wonderful trip with family and friends this summer, Harry and Meghan have decided to spend an extended period in the U.K. this autumn. They are excited to have their children spend more time in the country that’s such an important part of their family’s story.”
So after their summer vacation they go back to California and then decided to move back to Britain. Rich people are different than the rest of us. They have the wealth to have someone take care of all the details to relocate and to maintain their primary residence. But this statement really makes me question their mental health. Is this a manic phase? So this statement is just being completely honest and willing to make them look impulsive or they are not telling the truth. Harry has stated on the record himself that he’s living in California “at the moment”, we started reading articles as far back as December 2024 about a move back to the UK. If this has been in the works for a year why not just state that. I have wanted to believe that its because of Invictus. And if its something they don’t want you disclose like a visa issue or for tax purposes then just don’t say anything or state that its was planned for a year.
To me after seeing what happened to Sentebale and thinking that William was involved, I saw that Invictus was vulnerable to William’s attack. William doesn’t want it for himself, too much like hard work for him, he just wants to get it away from Harry. I believe that it is to Harry the most important thing that he has started. Harry was too innocent over Sentebale, he knew it was a good thing and he expected others to think the same way as him. But Harry has been warned I hope he can do something, I don’t know what, but I can see Charles or William talking to the armed forces to try to get them to kick him out. Charles is the head of the armed forces and William will become the head the moment his father dies.
He’s never said that, though–so to say that he moved back for Invictus or for security is just as false of a claim.
Maybe now Harry can finally realize that nothing has truly changed, his family will always be terrible people and he doesn’t belong there. This misguided experiment can end before his security situation comes to its likely conclusion (he won’t get any!) and they can pack up their bags and go home California or even Portugal! Harry can do his IG stuff in Portugal. Why put Meghan and his family at risk? The writing is on the wall and even announced from the palace.
It’s fine to disagree with Harry but a little odd to be telling him where he and his family should live. Meghan is a grown woman with agency. She is in the uk with Harry because she wants to be! We have no idea how long they will stay in the UK, nor do we know how they are currently thinking or feeling. They are adults and we need to let them live their lives!
The boys both are in differing stages of deciding their father is a coward.
One firmly committed with a pouted if not quite stiff upper lip and the other painfully mired in the indecision that makes hearts throb around the globe.
And, btw, Throbber outpaced plain old Royalty ages ago.
CIII could have avoided all the chamberlain, parchment and wax costs by trying to be less of a dick for a change.
I’m sorry, but since when an anonymous source close to the Sussex equal a leak from the Sussex? They have confirmed more than once that they speak thru their spokesperson.
The spoon feed in the telegraph have all the marks of clickbait. There are a lot of noise in the press, but I don’t see how they are losing any battle.
Yesterday, Harry’s up coming events were confirmed by different announce that spread worldwide. Meanwhile the king is still dealing with the Uganda backlash and William outing success at best is average. This is not losing for the Sussex. This is telling the palace and the press that they won’t play any game with them.
I think Kaiser is now showing this articles because we had been told for months/years that the Sussex friends don’t speak to the press/leak and it’s been said for months now that Harry was moving back to the UK by friends that weren’t named.
I would think this was an educated guess because they always said they wanted to share time in the US and UK. After six years, obvious financial success and more and more oversea trips for Harry, this was kind of written in the sky.
Harry is not afraid to speak up when the press or the palace pull some stunt, he does not hide behind anonymous sources.
Well, its actually been said for years that Harry was moving back. But of course, it was always him moving back without Meghan. So if someone was placing bets on the idea of Harry (alone or with meghan) moving back, then every single RR has been right on that score. So are they all now credible?
Agree @Julie. There is no time in my mind that the BritSh*t media reports anything correctly. Even the positive stuff. It’s a game of clickbait. This situation is only exhausting to people that are buying into the BM/BRF/tentacle l LIES.imo I don’t know why H&M went back to Salty Island. They don’t need to explain it to me. Don’t like itl Again, I don’t know the why of it.
We all do things other people don’t understand. That’s called life. But, yes, “sources close to the Sussexes”, is shite. How many times have H&M appeared somewhere and no one knew about it until afterward?
LOL! I knew about the Sussexes 4th of July outing before the BM/social media did. From someone I’m close to that lives there and is in visible range of the private airport. I did not acknowledge or *might* have lied about some things then. The point is, the Sussexes/friends have been quiet about so many things.
They are public figures who deserve a right to privacy. They are public figures, higher than most, that don’t deserve BRITISh MEDIA intrusion.
Harry & Meghan are HIgh Profile Public Figures who deserve a private family life. With security due to Harry being a son of a King. Harry has offered to pay for security in the UK. Not wanting to expense taxpayers in the UK. The BM/BRF completely ignore all this.
Meghan, has been declared a Princess of Nigeria. Does the UK/BRF really want to F*ck with that?
I think it’s completely reasonable for Harry and Meghan to point out that yes, while they want privacy, they are public figures — that’s a pretty obvious truth.
To me the problem is that they are asking protection paid from public funds. They chose to leave their position as working royal, to live a private life as private citizen in the USA, to make a living for themselves and made it known that they wanted privacy. And good for them ! I believe Harry also wanted to be more than “the spare” and exploit his capacities for himself as an independent man and for his family as a husband and father. Yes Harry, go find your freedom ! We believe in you !
But they also chose to come back to the UK, for whatever private reasons they have.
If I was a tax payer in the UK, I would honestly have a hard time with being ask to pay for their security, especially knowing that they own a multi million worth mansion in the US and another one in Portugal.
At this point it should remain a private and family matter and if he doesn’t want to spend his own money for his security, then what was the point of all of this ?
Harry has begged to be able to pay for armed security in the UK. When the palace said No he took it to court. The judge said no, private citizens couldnt pay.
They are using lack of security access to exile him from his own country.
Princess Anne was kidnapped. The Queen & Charles were shot at in public, Dickie Mountbatten was murdered by a boat bomb, his mom offed in a tunnel. Harry needs real, legit armed govt security. I hope he’ll get it – at least for the kids’ school runs.
I’d rather pitch in for his security than pitch in for William to have another house at my expense?
The policy is that public figures get security based on threat level. You can be a private citizen and still be a public figure. Harry is a public figure. He just is. And unless you know what threats might exist against them, it’s not for you to say that they don’t rise to the level of warranting security.
It’s his country. He was raised there and educated there. He served it in uniform. His kids are British citizens. He has a right to come back and live there if he wants to. And to get security if that’s what another person in his position would get.
What about Liz Truss getting security for life? what about Salman Rushdie? what about taylor Swift? (I believe she at least pays for it when she’s in London but Harry also offered to pay and was turned down.)
Truss is a forgone conclusion, ex Prime Minister, they all get protection for the rest of their lives. Rusdie gets because he upset some fanatics with his book. The sort who will kill him. Not just talk about it.
@sunniside up: The Taliban have threatened Harry’s life. They are the sort who will kill him, and his family, not just talk about it. Just like Rushdie.
There are racists who have been sent to prison for threatening to kill Harry because he married a black woman and had children with her. And there are people who have sent suspicious substances to KP, intended for Meghan.
The risk assessments clearly establish that Harry and his family more than meet the criteria for security to be provided, and since the courts said that he could not pay for it even though others have been allowed to do so, then it will have to be at the taxpayer’s expense. Clearly, whoever paused risk assessments for nearly 7 years knew of these risks and chose to ignore them, all while leaking information about the family’s lack of security and making it appear that Harry was just being precious and entitled for requesting that his security status be reviewed. It recently came out that the FBI informed Harry’s team of a security threat against him which people in the UK (RAVEC) knew about and not only failed to inform him and his team, but STILL denied him security. These are serious matters.
I’ll just add that Harry’s assessed threat level has always been very high, second only to the real Queen when she was alive. The royals know this. The government know this. And the people on RAVEC definitely know this. They keep leaking to the media that Harry is suing for “taxpayer-funded” security, deliberately omitting the fact that he offered to pay for it and was denied. One imagines that his threat level is now the highest of all the royals (indeed, of all of them combined) and they all know and don’t mind if the lone actors they have been encouraging do the job of erasing him and his family for them.
I think the taxpayer argument is misleading here. The question isn’t simply whether Harry can afford to hire more bodyguards.
Private security cannot carry firearms or access the police intelligence network. In Harry’s case, that matters because the threats against him have not simply disappeared because he stopped being a working royal. Neither has the relentless and often very hostile media coverage surrounding him.
He was a working royal, served in the military for ten years and is still the King’s son. If the RAVEC assessment finds that he needs state protection, then surely he should have the same right to it as any other British citizen facing a comparable level of risk.
That’s what the assessment should be about: the risk, not whether Harry is wealthy or a private citizen.
You seem to not mind Andrew, a man who was part of the largest sex trafficking ring in our day and age, to receive a free home in Royal grounds and have full security, as well as cousins of the Queen. You forget Harry is the king’s son and those are the king’s grandchildren? Don’t you ever reflect on the fact the UK spends millions every year to support a family that does very little? In total luxury with many palaces?
Andrew isn’t receiving protection because he’s a good person. When it comes to risk, I have no doubt that he has received numerous death threats. The criteria for RAVEC intervention is no doubt biased but protecting Andrew shouldn’t be an argument for or against protecting the Sussexes.
I’m sure this war of words influences the highly politicized Ravec. They’ve certainly made politically motivated decisions about H & M in the past. But they’ve got to get a grip on the actual threats to prominent people. They cannot wait for another tragedy to occur like Ann Widdecombe. And the British people don’t like failure.
But they appear not to care about Meghan and the children. Mixed race in the succession.
You’re right about the establishment. But we’re starting to see people in the government and the bureaucracy expressing their disgust with this corruption and lack of professionalism.
Hard disagree with the Sussex position here- they are private individuals when it comes to representing the King and the Royals. Yes they are public figures in that they are famous and royal (little r). But I do think it was important to clarify that whatever they are doing charity or otherwise in the UK is as private individuals and not representing the RF, especially because of the monetezation that occurs or likely will occur for many of the engagements. And so that the govt or charities or whoever don’t think that Harry and Meghan are showing up on behalf of the RF – they are showing up privately.
They all know that though. And in terms of monetization, harry and meghan do more for their charities from a financial standpoint than any of the royals.
Harry and Meghan also don’t take any money from showing up for charities they support. There is no monetization. They pay for their travels, lodging, clothes, themselves. They don’t send a bill afterwards (as the working royals do).
Harry doesn’t even get paid by Travalyst when he represents them.
They strictly keep the business part of their lives separated from the philantropic part. There was nothing to clarify. Charities and organisations know very well the Sussexes don’t represent the Crown. These people haven’t lived under a rock the past 6 years.
They are private citizens, but public figures. And royals. All in one. Charles can write as many letters as he wants, that doesn’t change the fact that Harry is his son, Meghan his DIL, and the children are not only his grandchildren but in the line of succession. The first 10 in the LoS are entitled to security, whether they work or not.
Over It, I have to say you are absolutely right. So people don’t come after me either, I am NOT telling the Sussexes what to do or where to live. It is just my opinion.
My view is that the Sussexes are in fact working royals- they are not publicly funded. The term “working royals” is a misnomer- all of the publicly funded royals have made money on the market whether it is selling an event, a horse, estate rentals, jam, etc. Queen Elizabeth thought Meghan should continue her work as an actress. The Buckingham palace letter would have rung true if they said H & M continue to support themselves and do not seek public funding. As far as security is concerned, there must be a path to pay for armed security privately: King Charles reportedly does that for Andrew, Queen Elizabeth reportedly did that for the Sussexes Jubilee appearances.
I am quite certain Charles doesn’t pay a penny for Andrew’s security. Neither did the Queen for the Sussexes.
I quote Neil Basu, former head of Counter Terrorism Policing and former member of RAVEC:
“In my experience, the independent chair listens to the Home Secretary, who listens to the Prime Minister, who listens to the head of state… I’ll leave it there.”
In other words: the King has the ability to make this happen.
The late Queen used her own security people, probably against British law to lend them out but she was a popular Queen.
How did you come to that conclusion? The Queen was protected through the official state channels.
Tessa, “pouty” is too good an adjective for William . I imagine a chubby-cheeked two year old and William is certainly not that. I’d substitute maniacal, monstrous, unhinged . . . You get the idea. And I bet William WAS monstrous at two.
The British tabloids have created a narrative based on… nothing. Who, outside their closest friends and Doria, really knows anything about H&M’s motives for moving back to the UK? And WHY are H&M expected to explain themselves? They’re grown adults, fully capable of making their own decisions about their lives and the lives of their children.
I’m shocked to see so many comments on this site (of all sites!) buying into the bullshit being peddled by “sources,” “friends” and other assorted miscreants.
Thank you. I’m shocked as well. We never used to be *this* gullible.
Whats always piqued my interest is that Harry and Meghan still appear on the official UK monarchy website. They are featured under the Royal family tab. It profiles the usual suspects and the Dukes of Gloucester, Kent, Princess Alexander and then Harry and Meghan. Why keep their profiles, the world knows they left. I know they are lazy but its been 6 years so why not an update and remove them? There is a reason and I’ve wondered if its related to the type of visa Harry is issued. We know that the Department of State handled his visa because of the Heritage Foundations FOIA returns. Not being a “working” royal but still acknowledged publicly on the official website helps Harry to obtain a special visa. Charles wanted Harry and Meghan as far away as possible and to stay far away and to make that happen that was a concession. They took away their lease on Frogmore, their security etc but the Kings of Petty left their biographies on the Royal Family website when the easy click of buttons would erase them. On another topic, Kate looked haggard yesterday, dark circles under eyes, skeletal.I wonder if she’s sickly again
No matter where they live they are still ROYALS. They are on the website because Harry is a Prince, he’s the son of the current monarch, and he and children are 5th, 6th, and 7th in the line of succession, and I think Harry is a Counselor of State(?). The term “working royal” was invented only a few years ago, specifically made up just to somehow maneuver Harry into staying so they could control him via his “allowance”. His status is purely because of birthright and birth order. The whole premise of the monarchy is that you can’t be fired for being unliked by your family or annoying or lazy — or for being more charming and capable perhaps than some senior members of the family.
Yeah I understand they will always be a member of the royal family, that’s not the just of my comment questioning why they are still listed. You ate stating the obvious and logical reason.
I believe the term working royal was made up when Harry was leaving. He had the 3 months before they left. It was around the time the Queen had settled Andrew’s lawsuit. There was an event that they didn’t want Andrew to attend so they created the term working royal to keep both of them off the balcony or some such thing. They also didn’t let Bea or Eug either. The only children they allowed where those of working royals.
I get the feeling that the British media is all eyeing each other to see who releases a photo or info on the children so they can pile on. Matter of time. I’m actually surprised it’s taken so long.
“They went to Montecito to live as private citizens. They also claimed to want to live in a similar way in the UK. Is Harry mad because he actually thought he had figured out a backdoor way to be a half-in royal, and the clarification ruined his scheme?”
Yes, I think that’s exactly what it is. Honestly, when they announced the move, I was pleased for them because I thought Harry had worked this out with Charles. Now, it’s clear that’s not the case, and this is messy as ever.
“No documented public statement shows Harry or Meghan saying that they wanted to become private citizens. Their 2020 transition statement instead described them as “privately funded members of The Royal Family,” reflecting a change in funding and representation rather than a promise to disappear from public life.”
From feminegra👆
https://feminegra.com/they-are-public-figures-harry-and-meghan-push-back-on-king-charles-private-citizens-label/
Don’t come at me but Harry and Meghan were well aware that they did not have security from Ravec when they decided to move back to Hell run by Satan hand maiden Charlie and Willy . So stop acting surprised when Charlie does something to further screw you over and publicly humiliate you yet again. Pack up your children, your dogs and get the heck off salt island and go back to paradise where you were happy and mostly drama free Charles will never change. Harry and his family mean absolutely nothing to Charles and it’s foolish of Harry to keep expecting this to change. The palace does what Charles orders them to do . Wake the f up Harry and Meghan and face facts. Charles is evil and he will forever be . And that’s why I find his whole farce about being a religious man completely unhinged and a total mockery of religion.
I don’t think we know when the decision was made. Back at the start of the year wasn’t there reporting that ravec had agreed to do a new assessment, the decision was all but a formality, and security was expected to be offered? A move like this doesn’t happen in weeks. What if there was some kind of understanding that things were progressing and so Harry and Meghan greenlit other aspects of the move. Maybe by the time it became clear that nothing had changed and everything was stalling again, it was too late to reverse course. School places accepted here and turned down in Cali, visas for Meghan, accommodations or even property purchases sorted out.
It might be equally as cumbersome to revert, Harry may need to reapply for us visas, schooling for the children in the us may be delayed now, don’t they start earlier there, in August? They might be committed to the full school year regardless and may have known that before they even landed.
That said, it seems to me this is exactly what they said: an extended stay. Maybe until Christmas holidays or until Invictus. And will come back for summer vacation every year, splitting some time with Portugal.
I think Harry actually living in the UK could significantly increase his chances of getting security, so that may well have been part of the reason for the move. I say part, because Harry has always said he wanted to spend part of his time/life in the UK. That’s hardly a secret.
I do believe most of this move is Harry. On the other hand I also think Meghan doesn’t care either way. It’s like with Hunter Biden they dragged him through the mud and now he doesn’t care what he says anymore. Like what are you going to say to “embarrass” or “admonish” Meghan at this point? Sometimes when you bring a person so low and air out all their issues and call them everything but a child of g0d, that same person doesn’t have any f**ks to give anymore. Look at the situation now? What are they going to say about Meghan that she hasn’t already heard or seen? I know if it was me I would be outside in the streets blowing a kisses to all my haters lol
I get what you’re saying, but I think her way is better: doing exactly what she was doing in the US (we didn’t see her on a regular basis, even though the British media could not stop talking and writing about her).
She absolutely knows that she is their meal ticket and she is rightfully starving them. They talk about her all the time, but only the most wilfully blind people refuse to acknowledge that the papers and radio stations and television studios are all talking about a woman who they have not seen in months. They didn’t see her when the family visited the UK on their holiday, and they haven’t seen her now. They had been counting the coins they would make when she returned and they aren’t making those coins just from speculation. The British media have speculated so much and contradicted themselves so much that they are roundly being mocked from many quarters.
She is starving them of new content, and rightfully so. She is not going to dim her light for them, but she won’t be giving them new material from which to create clickbait if she can help it. I predict that we shall hear about her visits, etc., after the fact, with photographs tightly regulated so that the usual suspects cannot profit from them. Their wild fantasies have less chance of being picked up by syndications if there are no new images to accompany them.
I love this strategy, and I hope you are right, @Magdalena! I am angry enough though to hope that the Sussexes might intentionally set some traps for the gutter press to make it obvious to readers that the writers are just making up malicious crap.
It really does seem Harry dared them and now he’s finding out. He said it wasn’t safe and he wouldn’t bring his family and then he does. Why would they change now? They can just say see you are safe, you came and they go to school, you are private and you are fine. And if something happens, the press will blame Harry for bringing his family without security. He knew he didn’t have security and they were stalling, he was denied it in the summer and still brought his kids to see his father and still moved his family. Should they get it? yes of course but the rules do not apply to Harry and Meghan, they are made up and changed in order to exclude them, you have seen this for 6 years. As long as Charles and William have people on the board I do not see how Harry thinks this will change. And if Charles suddenly decides to be a decent person and somehow gives them security, it’s gone the second William becomes king.
That’s why I believe it’s only an extended stay, possibly until Invictus.
I don’t get why they’d switch the schools for an extended stay for a year or two? It seems like, since they’re doing a split time thing anyway, it would make sense to keep the kids in US schools to lessen the changes for them.
My understanding is that the UK and US school systems are very different and this is the school system stage when things really diverge, so since Meghan will be in the US for long stretches, not sure why they wouldn’t just keep them in US school if they’re all coming back to the US anyway.
What do you think is up with Invictus? I might be wrong, but I think they’ve managed Invictus from a different country than where the games are in the past?
The Uganda thing is wild. I don’t think it particularly portends anything terrible tho.
Jeebus Christus! Did the Sussexes tell anyone that M would be “in the US for long stretches?”!!!! That would be a: NO.
H&M pledged to themselves after Betty’s death that never again would they allow their family to be separated for as long as they were separated during Betty’s death & burial.
Between now and IG2027 H has a lot of hands-on business to deal with (as we can see already with his published Sept schedule) for which he will need to be nin the UK. He and his wife obviously don’t intend to be separate their family during this period.
Its funny:…….the 21st century has so far brougĥt great advancement in human knowledge but I do believe gullibility is still winning.
The Sussex duo need new comms people. Because whoever is running it now, ain’t it. For example, why would they release a statement that says they were caught off guard with the statement. The optics are horrible and it provides unnecessary fuel for the press that already hates them. They need to understand that sometimes it’s better to say nothing and move in silence.
Of course, the tabloids already have photos of Meghan and the kids.
They have photos of them disembarking the plane.
However, it is a “Catch-22”:
On behalf of Charles and William, they do not want the Sussexes to get state security.
However, if they post photos of Meghan and the kids, it will justify their need for state security. Supposedly, she was at Soho House, but the tabloids refuse to post pics.
The real battle is between Charles and William and the press, not Harry. How long will the press hold out?
This is why they keep trying to disparage the Sussex name to lower the public’s positive feeling about them. Uganda backfired, and now Charles is walking into a hornet’s nest in the Caribbean.
They have spent the last 6 years whining about the Sussexes living abroad, so the public is a bit confused about why their return is seen as a negative, especially when William and Kate do so few engagements.
That photo with Meghan looking at Harry, her in focus and him out of focus. She looks absolutely gorgeous. I love that photo.
I don’t know why people think it’s such a mystery why Harry wanted to move back to the UK for a while. His father doesn’t have much time left. It’s perfectly understandable that he wants to stay close to his father. And in such situations, hope springs eternal that any needed reconciliations can occur. But really, his dad is dying.
I don’t know how big a group the “we hate Camilla and Harry and Megan and think Harry’s kids are paid actors” crowd is, but they are scary. So invested in who is “Royal” and who is not, spitting out vitriol in mindless group hates. I hope they are all trash talk and no action. But it just takes one dedicated hater thinking they have a whole community behind them to cause a tragedy. We have way too much experience with such things in the US.
It all seems so silly. These “royals” are basically a bunch of cosplaying rich people. They are capable of doing great harm within their own family, like both rich and poor dysfunctional families do. But really – they have no political power and they have no ordinary life, they are just running around doing rich people things and mostly pursuing make-work projects to justify themselves. Just wait until their children figure out that they can actually “just say no” when the pressure to rise along the Royal ladder comes and actually break away from it all and follow their own dreams. The monarchy may just dwindle away at that point. How far down the line of succession will they need to go?
They aren’t as awful as their ancestors because they don’t have the power of their ancestors. Humans are terrible when having real power over others and their awful ancestors had the power to damage others on a very large scale. They don’t. Maybe I have been watching too many documentaries on the murderous Tudors and such… But all this attention paid to such rich people seems like much ado about nothing. I could say the same about “celebrities” in general, but these people don’t even have the kind of talents to justify the fascination. They sometimes wear interesting historical costumes and worry endlessly about “royal protocols”. Their charity work could be easily replaced if they vanished tomorrow. They just seem to operate in such a small bubble.