Lily Allen is everywhere these days, promoting her new album and her questionable music video. Every red carpet, every opening of an envelope in the UK has involved Lily Allen trying to be the center of attention. Every UK magazine has run interviews with her, often cover stories. My take? Although I have sympathy for her reproductive issues, I think Lily is still the same trashy mess she’s always been. When she first came on the scene, she was a drunk drama queen always looking to start a fight. She’s mellowed a bit since then, but she still talks trash about everyone and everything. She has a new Shortlist interview and surprisingly, it’s not a litany of all of her famous friends and feuds. But she still manages to offend feminists, men, tomboys and on and on. You can read the full piece here, and here are some highlights:
She’s not a girly-girl, obviously: “I’m not an archetypal woman. All my best friends are boys.”
Gender relations: “It’s much the same. But I don’t think men are the enemy, I think women are the enemy. I know that when I’m sitting in a restaurant and a really beautiful woman walks in, who’s skinny, I instinctively think, “Oh she’s really skinny and beautiful and I’m really fat and ugly.” Every man I speak to always says they find that kind of woman gross, and they prefer a bit more meat on their ladies. So it’s more of a competitive thing. It’s weird. It’s just really unhealthy and we’re our own worst enemy. We should stop being so horrible to each other.”
The song “Sheezus” name-checks Katy Perry & Rita Ora: “It just dribbled out! It’s not supposed to be provocative and it’s not attacking anyone, although it does namecheck a few people. It’s about how girls are pitted against each other, unlike men. I know you had it in the Nineties with Blur versus Oasis, but it’s not the same thing. It’s like ‘Who looks the best?’, ‘You’re getting too old to do this, you shouldn’t be doing that’. There seems to be a moral undertone when women are concerned that doesn’t happen with men, and that’s what that song is about. Stop this now [laughs]. Feminism. I hate that word because it shouldn’t even be a thing any more. We’re all equal, everyone is equal so why is there even a conversation about feminism? What’s the man version of feminism? There isn’t even a word for it. There’s no reason for it. Menanism. Male-ism. It doesn’t exist… Fast-forward 100 years: ‘Yes, I do believe men should be treated equally.’”
Social media: “It’s a burden in the sense that there are people that take what I’ve brought as a marketing tool for them. And I don’t think you should use Twitter to sell records. MySpace was great because it had a music player on it, and I was able to change things around the whole time and show people how the album developed. Twitter is saved on my phone – along with Instagram – under ‘waste of time’. I only use it if I’m sat in the car for half an hour just to nose around. But it’s kind of stupid, isn’t it? And fun at the same time. Like crack.”
Her views on feminism and gender relations are a g—damn mess. I’m trying to interpret the whirlwind of contradictory messages. So, there’s no need for feminism anymore because we’ll all equal and she doesn’t know the word “patriarchy” I guess, and since she doesn’t know that word, we don’t have to think about it anymore. Oh, and women are the enemy especially if they’re prettier than her but it’s okay because all of the dudes tell Lily that they would prefer to be around someone like her, so she wins. And everyone is equal. WTF?
Photos courtesy of Shortlist.
The Amanda Palmer of pop music.
I hope that no one is surprised by these comments because she has always spewed sh*t like this, which is why I found it so funny when she tried to claim that the “Hard Out Here” video was about feminism. She’s full of sh*t.
And she’s raising TWO daughters.
Ack! Amanda Palmer! *shudder*
True story: I know Amanda and worked with her before she got famous. I could tell such stories….
Deets?!
Please do!
Even just one…
I love em’ both – I don’t have to hang out with them, so I don’t have to care if they’re assholes. Just as long as they keep doing their jobs and making fantastic music!
every time i SORT OF thaw towards her, she opens her mouth.
I actually agree with her comment about ‘other women being the greatest enemy women face.’
Same.
me too and she proves it by continuing her sentence about men finding skinny women gross
I partially agree with it in the sense that I think we are more critical or ourselves and other women than men are, but I still think it’s counterproductive to cast ANY gender as “The Enemy”.
Well said, I agree.
Agree. Women are not to blame for creating misogyny & a patriarchal society; however, many women do perpetuate this crap. All one needs to do is go into the Ireland Baldwin thread right here on this blog to see an example of what she means. Horrible comments there.
Absolutely! Only other women try to dictate a woman’s sexuality and birth control choices. Women control the house, senate, and presidency. There are way more women than men on the Supreme Court. So yeah, us ladies are totes to blame for holding down other women.
I believe it’s self esteem issues and lack of education that are the real enemy.
I think it’s both sides. You have women selling themselves out who cash up (KIM K) and get the man and the money and then men saying they want this type of woman, but then wife up hos and then good women see how lame women are getting ahead and sell themselves out and basically raise the supply and lower the demand which results in the lowering of the quality (quality women) and so on and forth, circle of life. Sorry guys. I can’t do better than this because im typing under duress! LOL. But let me know if you get what Im saying
@Socalgal – Thank You!!!!!!
It irritates me to no end when women blame other women for sexism and misogyny. When I see a beautiful woman, I think Damn that’s a beautiful woman. Don’t assume that all of us are crippled with insecurity.
It’s always a red flag for me when I hear a woman say that she doesn’t get along with other women. I get along with men and women. You might need to grow the f*** up.
LOl, socalgal!
I was reading this article on NPR the other day about sexual aggression in bars, and it was sooooo depressing the number of men who seemed to think that if a woman steps foot in a bar, she should expect to be assaulted.
I saw comments that said, “If you want to play with the big boys, you have to be a big girl or stay on the porch”. “That’s what you get if you want to hang with the big dogs” and the most horrific of all….”some women like it [getting their chest touched without consent], otherwise they wouldn’t be there.”
Then you have the Massachusetts ruling about it being legal to shoot up a woman’s skirt on the train, and yeah, it has all just got me down.
well said Socalgal!
wtf I completely agree about it being a red flag when a woman claims they can’t get along with other women or that they don’t have any female friends. And they always think it’s the fault of other women even though they are the common thread.
Nicely put!
If she’s talking about more superficial aspects, then probably I’d agree women are tougher on other women than men are, but with the big picture, important issues like rights and equality, there’s just no comparison.
And definitely what she’s talking about is her own self esteem and insecurities, not how women are actually treating other women. She doesn’t seem to know what she’s saying at all.
I was going to say the same – I kind of understand what she’s trying to say here, she’s just making a mess of it. Society says we have to act, think, look a certain way. But in reality, that’s no one’s ideal. But we perpetuate that by not being supportive of our fellow ladies.
Well shit, if you think all women are the enemy, no, you’re not going to do too well with them.
And it’s you, Lily. You’re the one always telling women they aren’t good enough, not us.
Completely agree with the red flag. Not saying that bad qualities don’t exist, but do you not see the logical fallacy in claiming to be the only enlightened woman who is above all of the pettiness of hoi polloi only to go on and trash the entire sex? Bad people exist, not bad genders and for all of cattiness that can show up I don’t know what to say about looking down on all of them. We’re not all terrible.
i agree in a sense that we, as women, sustain this game of “who’s hotter and who wins”. We need to take responsibility for bashing each other, for craving cheap attention, for using sexuality in order to succeed when it seems easier than by using brain.
Yep – I guarantee it’s not the guys going “oh girl those shoes with that dress?” or “OMG look at her cellulite.”
Yes, she is right about that.
I find her so unlikeble. I don’t know why.
I’m going to say it’s because of the things she says and the way she acts and her entire personality, but I could just be in a bad mood 🙂
Awesome comment Janey. I’m right there with you.
She had to have been drinking during this interview. It sounds like gibberish.
SMH….another young woman who’s scared of the word “feminism”.
I weep for future generations.
i think what she means is that in the world where opportunities for both genders are rather equal, this word becomes redundant. Basically, this word rather hordes women into some specific group of weak and special creatures who need feminists to take care of them. It kind a takes away responsibility for your own life…
People who dislike the term feminism don’t understand it. Feminism is for everyone. It’s about the advocacy of women’s rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men. Feminists don’t want women to be treated like special flowers we just want equal rights (and to level the playing field, so to speak). We want to earn the same amount of money for doing the same work (which we still currently do not). Feminism benefits men too, which is why they should fight for equal rights. If we make the same amount of money for the same work we can contribute more to household finances and if we relax gender roles men won’t be emasculated for staying home with the kids, while the woman works outside the home.
Furthermore, Lily is wrong, there is a Mens Rights Movement that supposedly champions mens right to child custody and harps on things like false rape allegations (and women using their sexuality to lord over men). The movement is highly myopic and focuses on the injustices that *mostly* white men suffer.
Feminism is flawed and doesn’t always focus on minority rights as effectively as it does on the rights of privileged white people, which is why we need progressive men and women to focus on minority issues as well.
“i think what she means is that in the world where opportunities for both genders are rather equal, this word becomes redundant.”
Hopefully she knows that we aren’t there yet, so the word and its cause still have great meaning and purpose.
i see what whet u mean MDIT, and i have a question, How so that women get payed less? In the state jobs , isnt the salary set for position, not for the type of person who gets it?
I have absolutely nothing to add to Mort’s comment. SPOT ON.
@lana, I hope they let me link to this, but here’s a great starting point if you want to know more about the wage gap. It is one of the major reasons that women and children are the groups most affected by poverty
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3038806/
Great comment, Morticians, very well said.
It is contradictory, but she does raise some issues which bother me. We, or maybe that’s too broad a term, but I feel we do not support each other. We are so powerful if we could only harness it, but why for God’s sake up till now can’t catch up with men. There are a few of us yes who’ve made it…I still feel it’s a man’s world. Am I wrong in feeling this? We give birth, we are the rock of the family and we work. I don’t see women as the enemy per se but our rights shouldn’t be an issue in this day and age, right? Why are we still lagging?
Lily, you really do need to stay away from cocaine.
Eh, I used to spout that same nonsense when I was her age. Truthfully, when you’re young and setting the world on fire, the need for feminism isn’t so obvious. You’re having a blast and no one is forcing you into marriage to secure land rights for your father, so all seems good in the world. Plus, it’s true that your guy friends often bring more fun and less drama, and there are always guys around willing to just ‘hang, so yeah it’s easy to say you prefer hanging with guys (all my female friends made comments like that in our college days, as I recall).
She’d feel differently if she were working at Walmart and making $3/hour less than her male counterparts for no justifiable reason. And – unless she chooses a second career path that is based on intellect over youth – she will feel different when she ages out of her career, while her male counterparts are still going strong.
She’s 28. She’s not college-aged.
I am her age and there are still plenty of women in their late 20s/early 30s who espouse this nonsense, but you swap out college for the workplace. A lot of these women are married with kids, but still have beers with their male co-workers and bemoan the evils of having women as friends. Hell, I know good looking women in their 40s who still act like this and have both same-aged peers and men young enough to be their sons as “friends.”
But Bettyrose is right; once you get older and see men surpassing you and no longer supporting you, you will realize the fault in your former way of thinking.
Thanks for the clarification, Kaiser. She’s a bit older than I realized.
I can see her points. It takes some sifting but they’re there and- so help me- I agree to a certain extent.
Yes, as humans, we should be in a place where the theory on equality should be put into practice thus rendering arguments like feminism obsolete. But we’re not there yet, and it seems with so many personal interpretations of what feminism is muddying the waters, we probably never will (can’t say I want to live in a world where Miley Cyrus’s feminism is considered the norm).
And yes, there is a female competitiveness in terms of our appearance and an accompanying insecurity. Whether we admit it or not, as women we usually care more about what another female thinks than a male (is… is that… is that feminist? Jesus, I don’t know) and certainly in terms of our appearance. It’s why the likes of Victoria Beckham is a style icon and Courtney Stodden isn’t (and never will be), one dresses for women, the other dresses for men.
However, overall, I don’t think Lilly Allen really has given much thought to what the hell she’s trying to say. I don’t buy that she’s a feminist, I really get the vibe that she’s very insecure but the second she feels validated she can’t wait to be that over skinny bitch making people feel bad in a restaurant. *eye roll*
“I’m not an archetypal woman. All my best friends are boys.” and “I don’t think men are the enemy, I think women are the enemy.” go hand in hand.
Yeah…perhaps if you started by letting go of the whole “I’m not like other women!!” shtick, then you’d stop being so confused. That line is such bull to me. No women are alike.
This is when the personal becomes political and I stop listening. Her views on feminism are completely tied up in her own low self-esteem issues (as opposed to, I guess, gender ideas as a whole). All this “I do this, I do that” and suddenly she translates that as “we all do this”.
And the male version of feminism is Men’s Rights Activism (or MRA for short).
And I imagine we’re still having a discussion about feminism because people like Lily keep saying: “I’m not an archetypal woman. All my best friends are boys.”
‘Her views on feminism are completely tied up in her own low self-esteem issues.’
I’ve been trying to articulate this since her horrible song came out.
Well said.
Oh Lily. As far as other women being the ‘enemy’ well, you’ve proven that you are part of it. If you cannot acknowledge reality in the fight women have everyday to be as equal to men in society because you don’t know then you should do some homework. Nothing too bad, just a little reading.
Why would you have enemies anyway? What are you; Batman?
LOL!
I love her always have, she looks really great
I find that women who prefer the company of men over women usually do because it means that they are the center of attention.
And I guess that I was in the bathroom when the announcement was made that misogyny, racism, and queerphobia were over. I think that classism never existed, and ableism, well that’s just silly. Thanks for setting me straight Lily!!! OMG, yr the BEST!!!!!!
“I find that women who prefer the company of men over women usually do because it means that they are the center of attention.”
So true. I’m not even going to waste words on judging this behavior because I think we’ve all basked in that attention at one time or another, but playing this behavior off as though it’s somehow a sign of you being less “girlie” than other women is tiresome. Didn’t Miley sing this same tune recently?
She’s an idiot, plain and simple. And ironically, everything she believes is precisely why feminism is more important than ever – idiot celebs like her are bringing down hundreds of years of work!
Oh, please.
I would love to live in a world in which humans would not see say colour or gender, just, if someone is suitable for a job or not.
I wish that we would be equal in this world, men, women.
I don’t agree with her completely, but she has a point, women are often very mean, petty and jealous towards each other.
What is frustrating to me is that women should have more compassion for their fellow women, because a woman knows it’s not easy to be a woman, but a man has no clue what it’s like to be a female.
I remember how several of the girls at NYC were making mean comments about mrs. Clinton when she was running for president and it wasn’t about her policies, but her appearance.
These were my classmates, registered democrats and all they could talk about how old she looked, how unattractive her clothes were and how bad her hairstyle was.
I have no problem to discuss policies, laws or anything else to do with candidacy that is relevant and important.
Unfortunately the same happened when the ill informed Sarah plain was running for Vice President.
The uncomfortable truth is that women are often just brutal to each other and I’m not just talking about high school here.
Sadly…..
You are 100 % right. I wouldn’t put that better. I read somewher that women on the same position work together wonderful, but once one has higher position things go sour.
Did anyone see the GREAT Google doodle today? International Woman’s Day, and Malala Yousafzai is in it along with a lot of women from around the world.
I love it! Thanks for pointing it out. Would have totally missed that..
You’re welcome! It made me smile. Sad to see that I haven’t heard the day mentioned anywhere else other than Google today!
Whenever a girl says, “I only have guy friends, I hate women” it’s because they are the type who needs constant attention from men and want to be the center of attention. Every girl should have female friends, it’s very important! I’m always suspicious of girls who claim they “hate women”.
It’s also involuntarily quite revealing, don’t you think? “Women are the enemy. I who say that am a woman. I am the enemy.”
I don’t care for her doesn’t matter what she says.
But She makes a good point.
Sometimes women treat women worse than men.
And we should know better.
She’s a neanderthal – it is just neanderthal thinking to revert to competetiveness within the same sex. At some point that would have been relevant to compete for male attention as a way of ensuring our own survival. There are those of us who don’t want that type of competition to be relevant anymore – we are called feminists. She seems to have all the intellectual and emotional maturity of a sixteen year old – stamping her foot and demanding an idea doesn’t exist because she doesn’t like it, can’t grasp it and it scares the hell out of her. Actually she’s the sort of woman who scares the hell out of me, progress towards true equality – for both gender will be slow while the Lily Allan’s of this world exist, upholding the same old crap that has kept us back for thousands of years…..
I AM SO TIRED OF TALKING ABOUT BODY TYPES IN TERMS OF ‘BETTER’ AND ‘WORSE’ AS IF THERE WERE ONLY ONE KIND OF BEAUTIFUL!!
I am so over the riddle “Yeah, everybody wants to be skinny, but it’s kind of okay to be not, because skinny is gross anyway and REAL MEN want REAL CURVES!”
I’m naturally skinny. That’s genetics. I’m also toned, and not naturally so. I do pilates three times a week. That does NOT make me BETTER or more BEAUTIFUL, nor does it make me ANY LESS DESIRABLE! Some men (and women, for that matter) like meatier women. Some men (and women, for that matter) like skinny women. Some men (and women, for that matter) don’t have a preference. Same goes for the other way around, some women (and men, for that matter) like meatier men etc.
STOP TALKING ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE’S BODIES! Tastes are different! People are different! THAT’S FINE! My body is private. My body is my personal boundary. My body is nobody’s business but mine, and you better respect my private sphere. You can be sure as hell that I will respect yours. Enough already!
EDIT: I thought that was was feminism was about anyway: respect. The right to be yourself on equal footing. *confused*
Really, you take this and turn it in to something about you? Wow.
…well, it might have not been articulated very well but I agree that the .”..every man I speak to always says they find that kind of woman gross, and they prefer a bit more meat on their ladies” comment was pretty insulting towards skinny women.
As someone who has dated a LOT, I can confidently say that not all men think thin is “gross” just like not all men think that “curvy” is gross-there’s a lot of variety in opinion to be had there.
Just like women-I know a lot of women that like a muscular, fit guy and I know plenty of women that like tall and lanky, and plenty that like big and husky. It’s really pretty subjective.
I feel ya, sauvage. One of the things that kind of balanced me out mentally with my body issues was having a lot of guy friends when I was in college. All of my assumptions (informed by society and pop culture) about what ALL men wanted was completely shattered after I picked their brains a bit. Some of my guy friends were way into big boobs, some loved small and perky. Some were “leg men” and some were “ass men”, and one really loved a woman with beautiful hands because he thought it was classy (that rocked my 18 year old mind). Curvy, thin, athletic, short, tall, they all had different preferences.
I realized there is no one type that men all love, just like there is no one type that women all love. No matter what “type” you are, there is going to be someone out there that is really going to dig it and think that it is ideal. Yay for variety! 😀
I get your point, but basing your self confidence on the opinions of men is pretty sad and dangerous. I know it’s a reality, but I wish women could just love their bodies regardless of what silly men have to say about it.
I absolutely agree with you, Jay, concerning it being dangerous to put your sense of self on a source outside of your own mind. That’s not what I meant, and I also don’t think that that’s what Tiffany meant. (Call me out If you disagree, Tiffany, please!)
Sometimes in life, in my experience, it is very helpful to just be told that you are okay the way you are by someone else, and to make the experience that people accept you for who you are. That experience of being accepted for who you are may very well set you on the course to self-acceptance, or at least support that path. And that goes even more for adolescents and young adults, when you are at an age where you are just beginning to discover what it means to be you. So, yay for love of the self and others! Yay for acceptance! Yay for varienty!
That’s what I don’t get–when people say one body type is better, over the other. That’s completely subjective.
I can say what kind of body type that *I* prefer and like, above all other body types–but to make such a broad generalization?
No.
Well, it appears that women are the enemy for her and she’s projecting this on all of us. Poor thing feels insecure around beautiful women. Maybe if she wasn’t so shallow she’d understand what’s really important. Nothing to see here, folks. Just another clueless idiot. With money.
I dunno about the guy friends thing, whenever I’ve had (straight) male friends they end up ruining the friendship by wanting more whether it be a relationship or just sex. I used to believe it was just easier to get along with men but looking back, I don’t believe my male friends treated me the same way they treated their male friends, there were elements of sucking up (probably for sex) and a lack of (real) respect which ultimately made the friendships seem phoney. The same with male co-workers, they’re easy to get along with on a superficial level but if something serious happened, you probably wouldn’t go cry on their shoulders, and if you wouldn’t think of doing that are they really a good friend? Some men are great with emotional stuff but I would have to say I think the majority (especially younger men) suck at it and I’d go to a woman to talk about heavy stuff over a man any day.
I don’t have an opinion about her as I don’t really follow her music or the stories about her. But I do love the photos.
Always obnoxious, and her argument about women being the enemy is superficial and imature. Think about my disappointment when I found out she was the one singing The Fear.
I cant stand her or her songs but her notions about women and how they treat each other are absolutely valid. I worked briefly in a plastic surgeons office that was FILLED with women, nurses, secretaries etc and I used to privately call it “the fking snake pit.” It was really shocking to me how they all treated each other…the back biting, the gossip spreading, the undermining, the sabotaging, the one upmanship. I used to hide in my office and keep my head low, it was exhausting and really ugly.
Consequently, regarding this absurd notion of “sisterhood”, on my way up the ladder building my own company fellow women never did a single blessed thing for me….any help, advise, or business I ever got was all from men. Not women. When it comes to women its always been quite the opposite.
I’m genuinely sorry that you had that bad experience, but respectfully, I’m not going to take the heat for it.
She is delusional & very obviously has deep rooted feelings of inadequacy about her physical being. So when she sees other women whom she perceives to be more beautiful she regresses & seeks external affirmation (the other ‘men’ who tell her the other woman is ‘gross’ blah blah). She just hasn’t grown up very much mentally & needs encouragement personally. Feminism is very much needed, she is delusional if she thinks otherwise. I don’t think criticism by another woman can be alluded to as ‘woman-hatred’ – what a bigoted argument! Lily Allen go to school & educate yourself!
Men aren’t really “supportive” of one another. They only gang up on women, is all.
Her music is really, really atrocious. She sounds really silly in this interview.
Jeez, I totally interpreted her words differently.
IMO, it sounded like she was saying women are enemies to other women BECAUSE of the very same thought process that she’s owning up to. Somehow we think that if another woman is beautiful/thin, somehow that takes something away from us. That competitive mindset keeps us at odds with each other.
I think she was owning up to the fact that she automatically buys into that thinking because of social conditioning, even though she knows it’s stupid.
Also, I took the disgust for feminism more as disgust that there NEEDS to be a word for it–like, damn, are we still not past this yet??
The fact that there needs to be a special word for female equality, but not for male equality, is proof of how screwed up this whole damn thing is.
That’s what it sounded like to me, anyway. She’s pissed that we’re still having to fight this fight, and that often we’re having to fight not against men, but against the screwed-up socialized relationship between women.
I mostly agree with her. Women can be real assholes to one another. I had to leave a job I really liked because the woman I worked with made my life hell. I was the tall skinny blonde and she was short, bad complexion and homely. It all came down to her feeling threatened. Didn’ t matter what I did or did not do she had it in for me. I work with all men now and yes sometimes they can be sexist but they let things roll off of their backs much easier and aren’t as petty or backstabbing.