Matt Damon on Effie Brown: ‘I don’t think she [thought we] had an argument’

The 27th Annual Palm Springs International Film Festival (PSIFF)
These photos are of Matt Damon at the Palm Springs International Film Festival this weekend, where he took home the chairman’s award. Damon used his acceptance speech to advocate for director Ridley Scott to finally earn an Academy Award for best director. Scott has been nominated three times (Thelma & Louise, Gladiator, Black Hawk Down) but has yet to take home an Oscar. Damon said he hoped this was Scott’s year and that the year that Martin Scorsese won for The Departed they talked him up to the press at the time and that “it panned out.

There’s a new profile and interview with Damon in the NY Times. His directors, Ridley Scott and Paul Greengrass (Bourne Supremacy, Bourne Ultimatum), speak highly of him and his professionalism. Damon talks a good game as usual. The journalist, Robert Ito, was able to get Damon to address the two controversial issues that came up during his last press tour – he seemed to suggest that gay actors should stay in the closet and we also saw footage from his reality show, Project Greenlight, in which he told an African American producer that diversity behind the camera was not as important as diversity in casting. Damon doesn’t do a great job of explaining himself to the Times, but he tries.

His comments drew a tsunami of criticism from critics and bloggers, who accused him of talking down to her, simultaneously whitesplaining and mansplaining.

“Um, there are a few parts to it,” Mr. Damon said. “So I’ll unpack it for you.”

What viewers didn’t see, he said, were the weeks — if not years — of frustration that led up to that exchange. “Ben and I had taken a lot of stick for this 10 years ago, that our committee of mostly white men had selected three white men, in succession, as winners,” he said. This time, the producers actively pursued a more diverse cross-section of applicants, partnering with Facebook and actively recruiting at film schools. Even so, when Mr. Damon and the other judges, which included Mr. Affleck and Ms. Brown, were given the final cut of candidates, 17 of the 20 were, yes, white men.

“By the time we arrived to do our judging, we knew we had blown it, so Ben and I were already frustrated and upset about that,” he said. “So when Effie brought it up, it was like, yes, O.K., we got it.”

The other concern, Mr. Damon said, was the reality series itself. “The dark secret of ‘Project Greenlight’ is that the TV show is bigger than the movie,” Mr. Damon said. “It costs more than the movie.”

That simple fact leads to a constant struggle between the needs of the film and the needs of the show — with the show often winning out. Muddying the waters even more is that the “behind the camera” winner chosen to direct the film becomes, of course, the de facto star of the TV series.

“The idea that I would say that there didn’t need to be diversity behind the camera, it’s not only complete anathema to what I believe in my heart and always have,” Mr. Damon said, “but it’s not something that I think anybody would ever say with a camera on.”

He added: “And so when Effie was advocating for the woman and the Vietnamese-American guy, what I actually said was, ‘Are we judging a contest or are we casting a reality show?’” he continued. “And that’s when she said, ‘Wow.’ And I went, no, Effie, I’m completely serious, what is our responsibility at this point? Because we had already blown it on the competition.”

“We were fine that day,” Mr. Damon insisted. “It wasn’t like I left and said, ‘Boy, I got in an argument with Effie Brown,’ and I don’t think she would have left thinking that she had had an argument with me. But the truth is, Effie did an awesome job for us. She’s an awesome producer…”

Soon after, Mr. Damon was taking heat once again, this time, for an interview in The Guardian that seemed to suggest that actors should stay in the closet. At one moment, he’s talking about the brilliance of Rupert Everett and the price the actor paid for coming out in Hollywood; the next, he’s discussing why actors should try to keep some “mystery” in their private lives. “I actually just conflated two stories that I’ve told a thousand times at junkets, and did it in a really clumsy way,” he said.

[From The NY Times]

Effie Brown might disagree with Damon, although we don’t know her thoughts about this particular interview because she declined comment to the NY Times. The last time we covered Brown, she hinted that there were deeper issues with Damon during her time on the show and said that the footage which was aired was “a more polite version of that exchange.” She added that “Word on the street is I’m not his favorite person.” If that’s the case Damon isn’t going to acknowledge that he has any issues with her despite the way she was treated on the show.

As for Damon’s comments about actors staying in the closet – I believe that he didn’t mean it that way. I know I’m a Damon apologist, but I’ve seen and read so many of his interviews that I recognized his talking points when I first covered that interview and didn’t even realize that what he was saying was problematic. He’s said so many times that actors should guard their private lives and that’s the way I took it at first. He’s so stuck in his own point of view that he didn’t realize the wider implications of what he was saying, and that seems to be a real issue for him.

There’s also a moving anecdote in the article about how Scott elicited a genuine emotional reaction from Damon during a pivotal moment filming The Martian. I won’t spoil it for you. Damon told that story during a press conference with Ridley too.

27th Annual Palm Springs International Film Festival Awards Gala

27th Palm Springs International Film Festival Gala

photo credit: WENN.com, Fame and Getty

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25 Responses to “Matt Damon on Effie Brown: ‘I don’t think she [thought we] had an argument’”

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  1. grabbyhands says:

    Just stop, Damon. You’re only making it worse.

    “We made up for the problem of mostly hiring white men, by hiring more white men, but it’s not my fault!!! We had to!! And it totally bummed out and then the lady was mean to me!!!!!!”

    God. Stop whining.

    He added: “And so when Effie was advocating for the woman and the Vietnamese-American guy, what I actually said was, ‘Are we judging a contest or are we casting a reality show?’” he continued. “And that’s when she said, ‘Wow.’ And I went, no, Effie, I’m completely serious, what is our responsibility at this point? Because we had already blown it on the competition.”

    The woman and the Vietnamese-American guy. Why would he think saying this would make him look good????

    • Ally8 says:

      Re: your last paragraph, that’s what stuck out for me, too. So tone deaf. The more he talks, the deeper the hole he digs for himself.

      What he’s describing about the group they ended up with is that the show has created a selection process that is systematically exclusive. While claiming now to have seen it, he did nothing to remedy it, and even after all the outcry and backlash, his subsequent statements indicate that he STILL doesn’t see it. He is like the living, walking manifestation of why affirmative action is still necessary: because when left to their own devices, even well-meaning educated people will default to hiring and giving opportunities to people who look like themselves.

      He still cannot seem to grasp Effie Brown’s fundamental point (and the reason for her shock in the televised exchange): that if you don’t have significant — not token — diversity behind the scenes, you will have dramatically reduced diversity (of people, of stories, of sensibilities, of viewpoints) in front of the cameras. Or in any workplace group setting, for that matter.

      • Pinky says:

        Nicely put.

      • lucy2 says:

        Very well said.
        I think him saying they had this problem 10 years ago too makes it far, far worse. Right from the start this time, they should have been aware and proactive in gathering different viewpoints, different filmmakers. Like you said, he’s just not getting it.

    • Alex says:

      Yeaaaa I need him to stop. Considering I got to talk with Effie on this when I ran into her randomly…either he won’t admit they had an argument to save face before Oscar season or he is that caught up in his own bubble of privilege. I’m sure she declined to talk because how many times can she reiterate the same damn thing. Sometimes it’s exhausting to explain something to someone who won’t listen the first 20 times.

      I like Damon but my like for him went down majorly in the last few months.

  2. Nev says:

    Is he still talking this one?

  3. Mimz says:

    Ok I’m not even going to get into that thing with Effie, but about the actors staying in the closet, that’s how i took it at first too.
    I mean, I think it’s a shame that actors lose jobs because of their sexual orientation. Not only actors, nobody should be losing jobs over their sexual orientation. So, I know and I think we should be free to say it out loud and be out of the closet, be free to be whoever we want to be without being judged, and it’s better in a human level, but in a job such as acting, where Hunks and/or pretty boys, Alpha Males bring the audiences to the theaters, it has proven to be a problem to come out. I know Ellen Page is still getting work, but will she really ever portray a heterosexual woman, or bisexual, or .. (fill in the blanks) and carry a movie on her own since she admitted to being Gay? Won’t she be put in a box? Won’t she put herself in a box? Had she come out before Juno, would the movie be so well received? Would she have been cast? Honestly, I don’t know.
    I don’t think personal lives should matter (unless there is something illegal or some crime), and we should just watch a movie regardless of what these people do behind closed doors. And I think that’s where Matty was trying to say.

    • Naya says:

      You are so right, its a much more complex situation that people want to accept. Its awful Matt can bring his wife to premiers and then lecture gay actors about “keeping their private life private”. But then the fact is a leading mans sexuality in a block buster does play in the audiences mind. Thats why they show up to premiers with their hot wives/gfs for goodness sake. Many viewers will accept a gay leading man in a big film but many wont. So the studio is faced with the option of casting a guy who could allienate half the potential audience and multiple other actors who wont have that effect. Its complicated, I guess.

      • Lille says:

        I would be skeptical of a religious movie directed by an atheist. I would be curious as to why they made the film, since people usually choose projects that mean something to them.
        And I have heard people say things like “it’s so crazy they cast “tomboy female actress” in that role, she doesn’t even like clothes, and shopping, etc.”
        they aren’t saying they won’t see the film, but I guess it is something extra that can prevent the magic of suspending belief and getting fully immersed in a film. That’s why some people heavily control what their PR teams put out about them. They don’t want to be unbelievable in a variety of roles.
        So, I guess what he is saying is that for some, when they come out, that becomes a majorly defining characteristic about them, and for some people it will be hard to see the actor in a role that clashes with that characteristic. Basically, being typecast. It happens to a lot of actors, and so I think Matt was saying not sharing much about yourself is a good way to avoid it. Whether it should be that way or not, I don’t know. I always think of NEil Patrick Harris as being gay, yet have had no problem as seeing him as several hetero characters. He is a pretty good actor though, and that might be what really makes a difference.

  4. H says:

    He needs to STOP TALKING. Ugh.

  5. Greenieweenie says:

    I’m sympathetic. Plenty of Stupid and Awkward falls out of my mouth too.

  6. jinni says:

    How appropriate the that Matt “we don’t need diversity behind the camera” Damon should be advocating for Ridley “I couldn’t find Middle Eastern or African actors to play Ramses and hired several Anglo white actors to play the Ancient Egyptian royal family in Exodus, but had no trouble making sure the roles of a nameless thief and assassin were played by two Black actors” Scott.

    • Ally8 says:

      Also, if Ridley Scott didn’t win for Blade Runner, he sure shouldn’t win for The Martian (which plays like a well-produced Discovery Channel special). He’ll get a Lifetime Achievement Oscar someday and that will be just fine.

  7. Alexandra says:

    MATT, SHUT YOUR PIE-HOLE!

  8. NewWester says:

    There is something about Matt Damon that has always bothered me. He just comes across as “too perfect Mr ACTOR” . Makes me wonder what he has to hide

    • Cindy says:

      Thank god, me too. I have zero evidence to back this up, but I am convinced he has a walk in closet FULL of skeletons. He is a celebrity I just have this irrational desire to punch. Especially when he does the toothy thousand watt smile. Grrrrrrr…… I can’t even properly comment on the post subject because I just had to see his face in the photos and my brain is seeing red.

      • justagirl says:

        I think you’re right. I used to like him, but it’s worn off. That smile is annoying because it’s a standalone-smile…thousand watt pretty, but it doesn’t connect with his eyes. He seems very insincere and it’s been leaking out in interviews. …Also, he’s looking more rough and less handsome – I have a theory that our true nature starts to show as we age…

    • justagirl says:

      ^^^^^ YES. This. He also has a huge chip on his shoulder, but manages to hide it fairly well.

  9. Meatball says:

    Can he stop now?

  10. Farhi says:

    He is tone deaf , but he is a white successful guy. He lives in a bubble. It doesn’t make him a bad person per se.
    I think most white people just need to be educated through experience and gently, as friends.
    I think much of criticism in the social media today is too aggressive and all it achieves is shutting people up,
    Pretty much everyone is tone deaf on a subject until they get educated on it and get some experience.

    Btw, I watched “Behind the Candelabra” recently and Damon and Douglas were so good in it. Maybe I am an apologist too.

    • moon says:

      Actually, I agree with you. A lot of white friends I have don’t mean or realise it when they whitesplain or commit micro transgressions, and I agree that being overtly aggressive is more detrimental than helpful. It’s hard not to feel angry though as a person of colour. Whenever my white friends tell me that things are getting better and we should be grateful POC are getting some opportunities (better than nothing), I have to remind them that’s condescending and how they don’t understand what it’s like to be denied opportunities because of your skin colour.

  11. nicole says:

    He is so boring

  12. knower says:

    the male version of a nothingburger.

  13. moon says:

    Here he goes, shooting himself in the foot AGAIN.

  14. mire usted says:

    How is it that Denzel Washington was able to put Antoine Fuqua on the map as a director with Training Day?

    How is it that Forest Whitaker was able to produce and develop the critically acclaimed Fruitvale and put Ryan Coogler on the map?

    Both Coogler and Fuqua are black directors who continue to work successfully. All they needed was a break. Creed is a critically acclaimed film going into the award season. Southpaw was well received as well. Their films have certainly done better than The Leisure Class.

    Brad Pitt produced Steve McQueen’s Academy Award winning film bringing another brilliant black director to the forefront. Steve’s talent has existed for years. Brad recognized it and used his clout to show it at a higher level.

    And who has Matt Damon and Ben Afflecks discovered? (slow drum roll) Jason Mann. Another white mediocre director. As Kent Tucker, a critic, put it, “The Leisure Class ends up making its most cogent comment on the leisure-class of show business — all these over-paid, over-indulged people, collaborating to give birth to a dull baby.”

    I had the unfortunate experience of watching The Leisure Class and I didn’t laugh once. Instead, I seethed with anger. Project Greenlight illuminates white privilege in Hollywood. And to think Ben Affleck proudly films himself donating $100,000 (and Matt too) to this awful film! Two Academy Award winning writers approved that script?! And for Damon to suggest there isn’t one talented black film student or director in the United States of America is both a lie and racist. Instead of wasting millions of dollars with HBO just call Denzel or Forest. They can point them in the right direction for FREE!!!! They found TWO black directors. I feel confident they can find many others. I wish the Oscar winning black director, Spike Lee would address Affleck and Damon publicly on this. I bet one of Spike’s students at NYU can make a better film than Jason Mann!

    The only interesting aspect of Project Greenlight was Effie Brown. Instead of continuously disrespecting Effie as a producer, Jason Mann should have put her in his film. She has a lot more talent and charisma than any of those awfully dull stars in his film. I hope Effie gets a reality show. She’s a professional producer but hilarious too. She even laughed convincingly at Jason’s film so she can act too! LOL

    Project Greenlight has failed twice now but I’m sure it’ll continue to get funding because that’s how Hollywood works.