I love Ellen Degeneres– she makes me laugh daily on her talk show, and occasionally she makes me think. And that is not an easy thing to do at 9 o’clock in the morning.
This morning, Ellen played a taped recording of Oklahoma State Rep. Sally Kern speaking at an event. In her speech, Ms. Kern, who is leading a charge to ban tolerance of homosexuality in public schools, stated that homosexuality is “more dangerous to this country than terrorism or Islam,” and that “studies show that no society that has totally embraced homosexuality has lasted more than a few decades.” Ellen looked stunned, as did her studio audience. Ellen then decided to call Rep. Sally Kern, to “inform her.” “I’m really interested in hearing about these societies that have disappeared that we don’t know about,” Ellen quipped while dialing. When she got through the line, she got a voice mail greeting saying that Sally Kern’s inbox was full and nobody could leave anymore messages. The studio audience laughed big time at that. So Ellen decided to leave her a message on the show, “Just in case Sally is watching.” Here’s what she said:
Hi, Sally, this is Ellen. The gay one. And I would like to leave a message. I just want to talk to you based on some things you said. I’d like to clear some things up for you. So give me a call– I’m usually here, but later on I’ll be at the Dinah Shore Golf Tournament, of course. That’s if it doesn’t conflict with the women’s basketball games I go to. Oh, Sally, Sally Sally.”
[Transcribed from Ellen’s show, broadcast March 12, 2008]
You can listen to Sally Kern’s full speech on youtube. I am still wondering how a person like this can get elected to represent anything, but then again, I live in a more progressive area of the country and keep forgetting that there are areas of the country that may not feel the same.
You can visit Rep. Sally Kern’s webpage. Her office’s phone number is listed on the page, but since her inbox is probably full of messages telling her to STFU, you should probably e-mail her. I did.
I have absolutely no problem with Ellen as a person, I do however have an issue with the fact that her show seems to simply be a platform for her views– That’s not entertainment, that’s MSNBC.
Just to start off, I am biased against gays or lesbians and I don’t think anyone should be treated badly or discriminated against because of their sexual orientation
BUT I do have a HUGE problem with my child’s school taking time out of the day to have a long lesson about their version of morality when they have yet to teach my child the basics of phonics. Maybe if teachers spent more time on education and less on trying to be the parent, the schools would actually improve.
*am NOT biased.
Holy crap I have the worst habit of leaving out words.
This makes my stomach turn. I allegedly live in a liberal state, but I’ll tell you, you wouldn’t know it by just talking to people on the street. In my (smallish) town everyone uses gay as a derogatory slang, and says completely ignorant racist crap all the time. YUCK!
Go away to one of those society’s doomed to fall apart you talked about, Sally Kern.
About Ellen’s show being too much about her views –
Um, aren’t all talk shows a platform for the views of the host? Oprah and Dr. Phil aren’t exactly objective in their programming. It’s kind of the point of the [insert person here] show isn’t it? That it’s their show so they talk about what they want? And if you like them/their views you watch, and if you don’t, you don’t. Hence I avoid Dr. Phil and Oprah. Oh and Rachel Ray. Bleah.
Hatemongering is hatemongering. Standing up and preaching intolerance of people for any reason is wrong. I think it’s a good thing people like Ellen who are in a position to try to negate the hate try to do so.
Sorry, headache, laughing hard at the first line of your post!! Even after reading your correction, still laughing. Hard. Sorry. Forgotten what else I was going to say here so will have to come back later!
I wrote her, too. I wonder if she’ll read it. Here’s my letter:
Subject: please clarify for me
How your statements as a representative are going to be beneficial to the general populace? Equating homosexuality with terrorism is not only ignorant, but could have horrible repercussions (ie: hate crimes against perceived homosexuals). Broad generalizations about ANY sect of humanity should NEVER be made. I also like to call to question how Islam is a threat to our society? Perhaps you meant Muslim EXTREMISTS? Possibly you are too ignorant to know there is a difference. Read up on Islam. The REAL Islam, not the crap you get in your e mail inbox along with the messages that say Microsoft will pay you for forwarding their messages. You probably believe those, too. I am appalled and thankful that you do not speak for me
My school district was forced to allow a children’s book about two gay penguins to be in the library, despite protestations of 95% of the parents. Why? Because their views were deemed intolerant.
No offense, but propagandizing and marketing homosexuality to elementary school children as a completely healthy and normal lifestyle…while ignoring the wishes of parents…is more liberal nonsense.
Don’t be open-minded that your brains fall out.
The Greeks embraced homosexuality and still do and are, if I’m not mistaken, one of the oldest civilizations in existence. Although I doubt, from the sound of her, if she’d be able to find Greece on a map. She doesn’t sound well travelled, physically or mentally. A law against Sally Kern would be far more beneficial to everyone. Who elects these people??
What about free speech? We all have the right to our views, and I find it distressing to read people advocating on here that the Rep doesn’t have a right to state what she believes.
Does no one follow Voltaire’s ‘I disagree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it’?
Free speech protection is really about offensive speech, not things that most people agree with.
To Phil:
Homosexuality is a part of our culture that won’t just go away because you want it to…If a child is curious and feels they can’t talk to their parents, why not a book?
For those who protest being gay so loudly, you might need to step back and take a serious look at your life…what are you trying to hide?
It isn’t immoral, it isn’t evil and it isn’t akin to terrorism. Some people just don’t feel that way about the opposite gender…big f*cking deal. Get over it. I would hate to be your child and realize I was gay.
We are a military family and yes, a friend or two of mine “might” be gay. It is difficult for them to not mix up their two lives. I feel for anyone out there that has ignorance and hate following them around.
I wrote her, too. I can’t believe how many people we have representing us who try to push an agenda of hate.
Dear Rep. Kern,
It simply amazes me that you would think banning the tolerance of homosexuality in public schools is a good idea. By making a statement like that, you are basically promoting a hostile environment for fellow Americans (and human beings) during a time in their life when they are struggling to create an identity for themselves and therefore need all the acceptance they can get. I am sure as a heterosexual adolescent, you went through that awkward stage when the slightest comment from a “mean kid” would hurt you deeply. What makes homosexuals any different?
As a U.S. Navy veteran, I am appalled by politicians like yourself who continue to push the agenda of segregation while we have men and women overseas giving their lives everyday to protect our constitutional rights and freedoms. I did not give up part of my life serving my country just so legislators like you can pass laws of discrimination and segregation. Now more than ever our country needs to unite as one. How are we supposed to do that if legislation such as the one you are proposing is made into law?
I also would like to know about these societies that have failed because they have embraced homosexuality. I personally have never heard of such a thing, but please, feel free to enlighten me.
Your own personal beliefs are your right as, not only an American, but as a human being, but in the future, I hope you will join the movement to unify our country, “one nation, under God”, and use your term(s) in office to promote a message of tolerance and “justice for all”.
I was going to write some long winded speech about tolerance, but cc did a good job for me!
Teaching tolerance in schools is about teaching kids to respect people who are different. How is that a bad thing?
You guys rule.
As for the “Free Speech” comment: This woman was elected to represent her constituents. If her constituents are telling her that they believe homosexuality is a greater danger to this country than terrorism, then I suppose she is trying to promote that agenda. But I highly doubt that.
What I find most problematic about this woman is her belief that the “gays” are “out to get” school kids. It is not only ridiculous and ignorant, but a very dangerous thing to say. Last time I checked, there were not a bunch of gays and lesbians hanging out at elementary schools hoping to get some new recruits- “the gays” are not The Army, nor are they Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Keep writing!!
Since most people seem to be missing the historical reference she was making, let me clarify: Greece and Rome are not points that help your argument people, as they both FELL, and are not the same societies they were when they embraced homosexuality. Last time I checked, most Greeks were Orthodox Christians, and the VAST majority of Italians are Roman Catholic, both branches that do not condone homosexuality. Lets not go around calling others ‘ignorant’ when we’re totally ignorant of the facts ourselves now is it?
Just like others here said, what should REALLY scare you isn’t what people like her are saying, but the facist-like reaction to it! To hear the people on this board talk, you would think she deserves to be dragged out of the legislature and strung up for HER PERSONAL VIEWS. True freedom is being able to say what you believe, no matter how stupid and ridiculous it is.
@Gracie
Free speech has responsibilities; just because you CAN say it doesn’t mean you should.
“Homosexuality is more dangerous to this country than terrorism or Islam.”
The above comment is offensive on so many levels to not just the two groups concerned – gay people and Muslims – but also to anyone who detests and loathes this type of ignorant, uninformed, backwoods’ intolerance. The woman’s a bigoted fool and those who support her are no better. Hope there’s a special place in hell (if it exists) for her and her kind.
I believe that I told people to love one another. Never did I say a word against gay people. Only that prick Leviticus did. If you take credence with anything he said you might as well take inspiration from Fred Flintstone. Why are most members of my fan club such douche bags? I don’t know why I bother sometimes. Well, that’s it. I’m off to go help Buddha with his Camaro.
Hehe.
Thanks geronimo. I was trying to figure out how to say all that. I will never understand how folks fall for all the fearmongering
Amen, Bodhi, and a big Amen also to Jesus Christ! You tell ’em!
well she got a standing ovation from conservatives. and she has refused to apologize for what she says.
anyways, just wanted to point out that she cannot say that every civilization that embraced homosexuality has fallen, nor can we claim ancient rome or greece when trying to give an example of one that didn’t. why? because homosexuality is a fairly new category. By that, I mean that, before they didn’t label homosexuality as homosexuality. It was just another form of love. homosexual and heterosexual weren’t used as labels until the mid nineteenth century.
Damn well said, Geronimo.
And Phil McCracken, you really make me sad.
And I think you’re turning me off men and onto women.
“No offense, but propagandizing and marketing homosexuality to elementary school children as a completely healthy and normal lifestyle…while ignoring the wishes of parents…is more liberal nonsense.”
What an appallingly ignorant thing to say.
*Normal*? Like you, you mean? If that’s normality, you’ll probably be able to have it all to yourself.
And healthy, well if you really need this explained to you, I’ll oblige. *Healthy* is a happy, confident, emotionally secure person living exactly the way that feels true and right to them.
And if you’re gay that means living openly, not having to hide in the closet just to please intolerant fucksticks like Phil McCracken.
Teacher here.
No matter what anyone in an elected office says, I’m going to continue to teach the children in my classes to be kind to other people. If you would like to raise your children to hate others, you’ll have to do it at home, because they will not learn it in my classroom.
I think a much more effective move by any politico would be to get POLITICS out of public education.
Gracie, regarding the free speech thing, she’s talking about BANNING tolerance towards homosexuality in PUBLIC SCHOOLS. That is way beyond freedom of speech. So she thinks homos are twisted. Fine. She can think it and she can say it, but by banning tolerance you’re talking about legally oppressing a vulnerable population (children.) What will that mean if a child tries to express curiosity in school? I’m afraid to find out. By banning tolerance SHE wants to ban freedom of expression. Why is it right for her to be able to express her views and not others?
i don’t get why some people are so afraid of gay people. Me thinks thou dost protest too much.
To Phil:
What if a school library tried to include a book about an interracial couple and 95% of parents protested because the school happened to be located in a racist area. Should the racist views of those parents trump the right of the school to merely present materials of other lifestyles?
If we try to use the argument that societies that embrace(d) homosexuality have historically “fallen”, then I think that human society as a whole would currently be in the shitter/stone ages. Has homosexuality not existed since the dawn of man? Do we not see evidence of same sex relationships in penguins, bonobos, birds, dolphins and macaques? Granted, there are a lot of things which occur in the animal world (ie infanticide) which we would never permit, but it has to make you think. Actually, they haven’t done a lot of research as to why this behavior occurs because it is such a volatile political subject. Which makes another point: it’s a personal, private subject, and has only become a political one because everyone wants to push their views on each other. Can’t people be allowed to make their own decisions about their own lives? Shouldn’t we be able to follow our hearts and be allowed to find our own happiness?
I adore it when the little-minded conservatives try to throw the word fascism in there…as if there is not fascism from their side as well. We are all trying, in essence, to make each other think the way we want them to think, and it just doesn’t work that way. I can understand parents being concerned about what schools teach, but we should remember that change is the only constant, and things aren’t going to be the way they were in 1952.
Example: My great-uncle was a very well-known interior decorator; he also served in the armed forces. He was very wealthy and well-connected, he was homosexual, and he and his partner were together for FIFTY-FIVE YEARS, until his death last year. Needless to say, this is longer than most hetero marriages last these days. Anywho, when Uncle A was sick and dying of cancer, his partner was STILL hiding the true nature of their relationship from outsiders; when the Dr asked his relation, he said he was a cousin. He was so conditioned to hide the truth, it had become second nature! Bottom line, it takes more courage for a gay person to ‘come out’ than rep. kern has in her little finger, and that they should have to ‘come out’ at all is a travesty.
Sorry again for my ranting, I realize that a lot of people don’t care what I have to say, and that nothing will change their minds. Of course, as many have stated, we are all entitled to our opinion, but we should really understand why we have those opinions. Is the main influence the bible? our upbringings? I live in the deep, deep south, so I know about racism, sexism, bigotry and hate. But I take heart in believing that it will not last much longer, that we will be allowed to be who we are without having to apologize, and that we can each be happy and satisfied on our own personal terms, without having to answer to anyone. Thank you, that is all.
You guys rock! I realize this not a fair way to do this, but lets look at the opinions expressed on this (biased) forum, shall we? There is a very clear majority (AT LEAST 4-5:1) of people who disagree with what the esteemed rep said, and that’s even giving the other side those who argued about free speech or just said they didn’t like Ellen. This makes me happy, and I am so overjoyed to read the comments of Loob, Chamalla and Wif especially. You guys make me happy to be alive today!!!
If any historians are on this message board, I’d love to hear how the “embracing” of homosexuality led to the fall of Rome, Greece or any other society. Maybe it was those nasty liberal teachers in the 70s when I was in school spreading their propaganda, but I seem to remember that it was a corrupt government divided by party politics, widespread greed and nepotism, and the failure to support the working class while the rich kept getting richer that led to the collapse of those societies.
Hmmmm, sounds familiar, don’t it?
iheartlasagne is my new hero.
Look, I don’t agree with what this old hoity toity political old guard narrowminded bigoted asshat had to say. But I’m really fricking annoyed with the teachers I have to deal with on a daily basis who place more emphasis on telling me how to raise my children and what constitutes decent parenting than teaching my children to differentiate between long and short vowel sounds.
And one more thing, Miss Ma’am needs to worry more about the fact that half these damn kids can’t even read the books in the school library before she worried about what is on the damn shelf.
To MSat: My reference to Greece was due to this statement “The Greeks embraced homosexuality and still do and are, if I’m not mistaken, one of the oldest civilizations in existence.”
I never tried to imply that the act of embracing homosexuality led to their downfall, like this woman was implying in her statements, and I wouldn’t ever agree with that. But the fact is, Greek culture today resembles Greek culture thousands of years ago about as much as what I’m typing resembles Shakespearian English.
Also, before you start pontificating the typical progressive parallels between the downfall of Rome and modern America, you might look into the fact that a collection of Roman city-states with only 1/45th the population of it’s conquered territories was trying to control all of those people. For all the moral arguments in the world you can collect from down the centuries, THAT is why Rome fell, THAT is why England’s empire collapsed, and THAT is not what we see in America today.
The fact remains, I see far more ‘hate’ coming from people preaching ‘tolerance’ than those defending this woman’s right to free speech. Then again, as someone else said earlier, maybe I should ‘burn in the special hell’ alongside with here.
“Hope there’s a special place in hell (if it exists) for her and her kind.”
If you’re going to quote people, do it accurately please. No mention of burning so that would be your perception of hell, not mine.
Where is this hatred you’re seeing everywhere? Your call for free speech to preach bigotry, intolerance, and ultimately violence, against any group of people spits in the face of everything that decent people – across all divides – are trying desperately to educate against. I’m seeing hatred but it’s not from the majority of posters here. I’d look a little closer to home if I were you.
I personally think the dumb b@@ch can say what she wants.I am little shock that people want her to apologize and are upset because she refuse. Why should she apologize if that is the way she feels? We all now know that she is a hate filled individual with beliefs that unfortunately many agree with and can take appropriate action.I am at least relieve to know that at least she is “out of the closet” with her views.
As a woman of color who has been who experience discrimination based on my sex and race,I wish every sexist, racist, hate- filled individual would just stand up and stop hiding under the facade of tolerance.I am happier knowing an a**hole for what he/she is. Since I truly believe she have a right to her views,I also believe that I have a right to mine. I already send her a nice little e-mail telling her exactly how I feel about her and her dangerous beliefs.
Good point, Rose.
Geronimo, I just felt that damning anyone to any afterlife boogeyland for being an ignorant racist is being pretty judgmental yourself, but to each his own.
You can get as sanctimonious as you want while trying to convince yourself that I’m some closet hatemonger, but it’s just not the case. I just happen to live in an area of the country where both sides of the argument are presented, and we respect a person’s right to peacefully disagree.
At the end of the day, the law of this land says that the KKK has just as much right to march for white pride as Code Pink has to march against the war. When you start picking and choosing what speech you should allow and what is ‘hate speech’ and shouldn’t, then you’re criminalizing thought. Frankly, I’m more afraid of some future ‘thought police’ tossing people in jail for expressing their views than I am of this woman’s position ever finding widespread support.
iheart~ that is one of the sweetest/saddest stories I’ve heard in a long time.
But Scott, there’s a difference between a civilian picketing for or against a cause they believe in, on their own time, and an elected official using her power and influence to shape governmental policy to suit her own beliefs, don’t you think?
If it is a free world. Why are we free not to condone homosexuality? Isn’t that double standards? I do not condone homosexuality, however every one has a right to do what they want. Gay people push their views down our throats. More than 75% of the world population does not condone homosexuality. I also take offence when my child is taught that it is right. Shouldn’t we choose what are kids are told morally?
I notice that most gay people seem unhappy with messed lives. No offence just my observation.
I’ll give you that MSat. There is a difference there that puts her comments in a different light than a private citizen. I guess the real question is if the people in her district agree with her, which is generally the assumption you have to give when talking about someone who was elected to office.
As distasteful as it may be to us, if that’s what her constituents really want her to be pushing, if that’s the platform she was elected on, then she’s just doing her job.
I just thought some of you might like to read the entire speech of rep sally kern. I have found that most of my gay friends and family are fairly quiet and peace-loving, and just want to live their lives. I never was aware they had some world domination agenda, but there you go. Enjoy, it’s kinda long:
“The homosexual agenda is destroying this nation, okay. Its just a fact. Not everybodys lifestyle is equal. Just like not all religions are equal. The very fact that Im talking to you like this today puts me in jeopardy, okay. Im not anti, Im not gay-bashing, but according to Gods word that is not the right kind of lifestyle. It has deadly consequences for those people involved in it. It has more suicides. Theyre more discouraged. Theres more illness. Their lifespans are shorter. You know, its not a lifestyle that is good for this nation. Its a matter of fact, studies show that no society that has totally embraced homosexuality has lasted more than, you know, a few decades. So its the death nail for this country. I honestly think its the biggest threat, even in our nation. Even more so than terrorists, or Islam, okay.
Cause, whats happening now, theyre going after, err, in schools, two year olds! You know why theyre trying to get early childhood education? They want to get our young children into the government schools so they can indoctrinate them. I taught school for close to 20 years and were not teaching facts and knowledge anymore, folks, were teaching indoctrination, okay. And theyre going after our young children, as young as 2 year of age, to try to teach them that the homosexual lifestyle is an acceptable lifestyle.
You know, gays are infiltrating city capitals. Did you know, Eureka Springs, anybody been there? Have you heard that the city castle of Eureka Springs is now controlled by gays? There are some others, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Kensington Maryland, Vermont, Oregon, West Palm Beach, Florida and lots of other places in Florida. Whats happening?
They are winning elections, one of the things I deal with in our legislature, I tried to introduce a bill last year that would notify parents, err, schools had to let parents know what clubs their students were involved in and the reason I did that bill, primarily, was this: we had the gay-straight alliance coming into our schools. Kids are getting involved in these groups, their lives are being ruined, the parents dont know about it.
So I introduced a bill that said you have to notify all the clubs participants parents. A colleague said: we dont have a gay problem in my community, thats why Im not going to release that bill. You know what, to me, thats so dumb, if youve got cancer or something in your little toe, do you say Im just going to forget about it because the rest of you is fine? It spreads, okay. And this stuff is deadly and its spreading and it will destroy our young people and it will destroy this nation.”
Scott F.
Sorry, still think the point is being missed here. Cant you see the difference between what you’re advocating and what Sally Kern in this instance is saying. It’s not freedom of speech thats in question, it’s the validating of extremely bigoted, racist views views already held by people who will hear, in her words, approval of a mindset that sees violence as a way of dealing with individuals whose behaviour they disapprove of. It’s almost giving them the go-ahead. Anything that encourages violence against another person or group of people is just wrong and unacceptable.
Kern’s views are appalling. I can’t believe she holds a public office.
I commented before I saw iheart’s post with SK’s full speech. Enough said. Lock your doors! The gays are coming!
dear jane,
i happen to support the rights of homosexuals, transgenders, etc. so, don’t try to make me out to be some bible-thumping member of the redneck “God Squad” (as people living in “enlightened” states call those people). i do not support the war in iraq. however, can you stop writing stupid nonsense like “the real islam is about peace”? this is leftist nonsense. this is a statement that comes from someone so afraid of making any sort of criticism of “the other”, so worried about being “racist”, that they have forgotten how to critically think. if you read the koran (and there is no f@#ing reason for me to spell it qu’ran), you will see that the muslims’ prophet, mohammed, DID encourage violent subjugation of the non-muslim world. you will see that he encouraged trickery when it came to spreading islam and consolidating its power. you will see that he slept with a little girl, and with the wives of conquered enemies. he also made it lawful for his warriors rape conquered women. this is all in the “religion of peace” that is islam. as for islam “respecting” other “people of the book” (jews & christians), it does not. jews and christians are SECOND CLASS CITIZENS in the world of islam; they are tolerated, but face heavy taxation and restrictions in the types of things they can do. so please stop spreading that CAIR-sponsored nonsense that brainwashed lefties so easily accept and repeat. it just isn’t true.
Wow, what an impressivly stupid speech. I wonder what her educational background is. (I’d look it up, but I have an awful headache) My boyfriend & are thinking of moving to Tulsa so I guess its a good thing to know what we’re getting into. :eyeroll:
Scott F and others who are advocating the “free speech” angle:
While I agree that in America, everyone has the right to free speech (with the exception of shouting fire in a public building), people who exercise that freedom need to understand and accept the consequences of their actions, just as I said with the dixie chicks years ago.
This chick has a right to her opinion and her constituents have the right to disagree and the right not to vote for her when her term comes up for reelection.
to jane~ Islam IS a religion of peace and calling is so it not “leftist nonsense”. If one actually studies the Koran and the Hadiths its obvious. One has to study any religion as a seperate entity from the culture it came from and the various cultures it is a part of today. Thats just how it is. Any student of religious studies can tell you that
Headache: Believe it or not we completely agree. The reason I don’t advocate censuring this woman is because the voters have the opportunity to do that for themselves the next time they go to the polls.
Geronimo: As incredibly dense as that woman’s speech was, I can’t find a single line where she advocated violence against anyone. That’s something you’re reading in to it. That is the dividing line of free speech and always has been, you can’t advocate harming any person or group. That’s all I’ve been trying to get across. She didn’t advocate harming anyone, she just said something really stupid. Frankly, if we’re going to start punishing people for being stupid, a lot of us are in trouble.
“So its the death nail for this country.”
No, Sally, it’s either ‘nail in the coffin’ or ‘sound the death knoll’.
Bodhi, I think this tells us all we need to know about her education…
True. Sorry about the mostly-bold comment, I forgot to close the tag
Scott F. It’s how it will be interpreted by those who have a penchant for violent means!!! That’s the responsibility element of freedom of speech!!
Geronimo: Yeah, and Helter Skelter was interpreted as a direct message from the Beatles to Charlie Manson to start a race war too, right? Are you gonna throw Sir Paul in the lockup for inciting hate? You can read anything you want into anything, people’s actions are their own responsibility.
I’m sorry, but the premise of Ellen’s show is to interview celebrity guests, and be jolly. Her show should be likened more to an early (daytime) version of Jay Leno and Conan O’Brien, not Oprah and Dr Phil– so give me your funny monologue, and then lets hear the latest about some shitty movie that’s coming out from the crap producer. Celebrities are paid to act/entertain, not to be nightly news correspondents.
Society has really lowered its standards by making these people think their political views, or any views for that matter, are important. Let’s just stick to the pictures of their blown-up cellulite-covered asses on the covers of rags, along with their embarrassing on-set stories from their shitty movies.
errr, Islam calls itself a religion of peace. It does not make itself one. There are very few true peaceful religions in the world and none of the big three either in practice or doctrine can be called peaceful.
I would say only the Amish, Quakers, and Buddhism pass that test. They advocate peace in their writings and followers of these religions as nations, states and/or communities have traditionally denounced war and in america at least are able to avoid military service as contiencious or however you spell it objecters.
In terms of the “free speech” argument: In Germany where I live now it is illegal to display the Swastika or to march for “white pride.” (and they don’t recognize Scientology as a religion but that is tangential.)
The reason for this is because of the very terrible history associated with those things. Millions of people were killed under that symbol and using those justifications, and it wasn’t that long ago when you think about it.
When you say that it’s ok to allow a congresswoman to compare gay people to cancer (thanks iheart for posting that) under the guise of free speech, that’s outrageous.
Sure she can say whatever she wants, but it’s ignorant and it can have very dire consequences for kids. She’s saying she wants some kind of McCarthyism in schools where anyone that is in a gay tolerance type group has their parents notified, and it also sounds like she thinks the group’s activities should be monitored. What the hell is she even talking about?
She’s calling gay people the root of all society’s problems practically and saying they need to be stopped like cancer.
That’s not free speech, and it does sound reminiscent of what Hitler said about the Jews.
CB, I agree that what she’s saying is very reminiscent of Hitler, and that kind of rationale is dangerous, but this is NOT Nazi Germany. When Hitler opened his mouth or Goebels spouted his propaganda, that was all these people heard. Every official in the country and most of the populace believed in that ideology before Hitler ever came around, he just rode the waves of popular support.
In modern America though, despite what others may say, we don’t have that level of government propaganda. We also don’t have a deep-seated and long-standing hatred of gays here the likes of which Jews had to deal with in most of Europe at the time.
For every woman like this that opens her mouth, there are thousands of people talking about it on television, in the papers, and right here on the internet letting others know that her opinion remains in the vast minority. We have fail-safes against that kind of monolithic indoctrination these days in America (with the possible exception of Scientology).
When someone says something like this, just ridicule them and move on, lets stop treating every one of these whack-jobs like they’re the next Hitler.
My favourite line in her speech is when she talks about how the “gays are infiltrating our city capitals”. Eureka Springs controlled by gays! OH.MY.GOD. What next? An African American running for president? Or *gasp* a woman running for president? Will this madness never end?!? I swear to god you gusy, if we don’t soon start banning this tolerance for people who are “different”, we’ll rue the day. Rue the day.
*sigh*
Christ Sally, you act as though gay people are a shady group of hellraisers who are determined to overthrow us damn straight people and rule the world.
Love is love. Who cares if it’s with boys or girls?
hey guys guess what, it is reported that sally kerns son is GAY! I bet her son is proud of his mama.
I’ve stopped playing tennis just to keep myself protected and I’ve deleted all the Depeche Mode from my husband’s iTunes library. I can’t say I’ve ever heard of Eureka Springs but I’m definitely going to keep away, no matter how fabulous their city castle might be.
My favourite lines from her speech: Not everybodys lifestyle is equal. Just like not all religions are equal.
Anyway, I gotta go iron my husband’s white robe. Sieg heil.
You know, I agree with the teacher’s comment on here. Whatever your personal views are on homosexuality- a school setting is not the platform on which to rail for or against something. It should be a neutral zone geared towards teaching students the skills they will need to get by in life. Kindness to others, whether we always agree or not.. ok. Telling my child to take a moment of silence to promote a homosexual agenda.. not ok. It’s not the job of schools to parent children.
And guys, the reality is there is a moral divide on the issue. And there has been a divide since the beginning of time. Some feel that should tell us something…. Either way, hate mongering goes both ways on this issue. To be so hateful to someone who disagrees is the same attitude it takes to insult someone based on their sexual oreintation (or whatever)
No it’s not. Not if you’re hating the person’s actions which is the case here. I don’t dislike this woman, don’t know her (thankfully) but I’ll express my right to hate, loathe and despise what came out of her ignorant mouth in this instance. If that makes me a hateful person, so be it.
Haha!!! to Elizabeth and Persistent Cat.
Scott F – I do respect your opinion and understand where you are coming from, but I think it’s a bit naive to say that we do not have the same type of government propaganda here. Yes, not to the degree there was in Nazi Germany, but it certainly does exist and can sway people at times. Naturally some will take exception with the source, but here’s an example of what I am referring to, if you are interested:
http://www.democracynow.org/2005/3/14/state_propaganda_how_government_agencies_produce
(it’s old, so the videos are gone, but you can get the jist of it)
Remember the video of the statue of Saddam Hussein being pulled down in Iraq? Although I believe many Iraqis were happy to see him out of power, I understood that the military/gov’t manipulated that situation in order to make the American public believe we were actually doing some good. You may disagree, and some may find evidence to the contrary, that’s cool too.
My only other comment is that, where I live (again, the DEEEEP South), I have heard nothing about this woman and her stupid public address beyond this site/the computer. What does that tell ya’ll?
Getting back to Ellen for a moment- if you watch her show regularly, you know that at the beginning of the show, before she brings out her guests, she picks a story that’s been in the news and does a little riff on it, sort of like Dennis Miller used to do on his show. Most of the time she does this for comic effect and doesn’t get preachy at all. And if you take a few minutes to watch the clip of this particular show, you would see that it was done from a place of great humor. She wasn’t preachy at all, she had this look on her face like, “wow, this woman is a kook!” and the audience was laughing hysterically.
Just felt the need to defend Ellen because people sure do like to bash her over every little thing she does. I love her to death.
I agree MSat, when did this become about Ellen? She’s awesome, and I think when someone gets their own damn show with their name in the title they can do whatever they want. Oprah can tell he legions of f’ing zombie followers what to do, and they just follow blindly, Dr. Phil is a hack, but people still watch that shit! Just the same as it is with most everything else – if you don’t like it, change the channel.
I think the reason why people get upset with Ellen over this issue is that (as seen above) there is a great divide over peoples acceptance of homosexuality. I haven’t watched her show a lot (2 small children at home) but when I have she’s doesn’t seem “overtly” lesbian. So for those who like what she does but hate her lifestyle, it’s got to be irritating to be reminded that you are morally opposed to how she lives, when you enjoy her show. Most of the time you can just ignore it. That’s my hypothesis, do with it as you will.
Bodhi, are you for real? The point is I HAVE read the Koran. If you’ve read it and can still say that the main book and the hadiths encourage “peace”, then you have a comprehension problem. If one actually reads what Mohammed said, you see that it is NOT all holy and peaceful. It is the kind of peace Tacitus spoke of–“we created a desert and called it peace”. Get it? The world will be at peace when the whole world is Islamic. He does call for the violent subjuguation of non-Muslims, he does make Christians and Jews second-class citizens, he DID rape women (you think that Jewish girl whose dad and husband were killed by Mohammed’s forces wanted to sleep with the guy?), and he did sleep with a little kid. Amongst many other morally reprehensible things. I encourage you all to pick the damned book up, and read it on your own. I’m sure you can put two and two together, instead of relying on the “i’m okay, you’re okay, everybody is okay” brand of tolerance pushed by today’s media. Read the Koran for yourself.
I am and I have. I also have a BA in Religious Studies, with a focus on the Big Three.
So thanks for the advice & all but I’ll stick with what I got.
Oh & btw “The Big Three” is an informal term. Arguing via a celeb gossip blog is about as useful as yelling at Fox news.
No offence CB
I’m moving to Iran…I hear they have no homosexuals there…
They do have homosexuals there, they just have a more direct solution to the ‘problem’. All kinds of sick, Phil.
http://beirut.indymedia.org/ar/2005/07/2999.shtml
The bottom line is that government is interfering in our lives way too much and attempting to isolate parents from their children and mandate what they will do, won’t do, such as home schooling or go to jail – get sex vaccinations or go to jail – think that they think you hate someone and go to jail – and it’s plain out of control and violates the freedoms and rights of our citizens – do whatever you want in your own bedrooms and don’t make laws that send us to jail for sexual preferences.
i just think the idea of evil plotting gays is hilarious. It’s a sexual preference, what if guys who like big butts are actually worse than terrorist, or chubby chasers are infiltrating our schools with their propaganda? How often do you drive by a gay bar and say, “Lock your door honey, we’re in a bad neighborhood, you got be to careful when the homos are around”
Seriously, name one evil thing homosexuals bring to the table.
Other than queer eye for the straight guy.
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