I just finished the first podcast of The Office Ladies podcast with Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey. I like both very much and I want to say something nice… so I’ll talk about The Office instead. For anyone who doesn’t know, Pam Beesly (played by Jenna) and Jim Halpert (John Krasinski) were the central couple of The Office. Their relationship was one of the few carried over from the British version. One thing I did learn from The Office Ladies podcast was that Stephen Merchant suggested to the American showrunners that the show’s longevity would be aided by leaning into the Pam/Jim relationship. Well, Jim and Pam would have celebrated their 10th wedding anniversary this year. Insert Chrissy Teigen, who asked the real question: are Pam and Jim still married?
It has been 10 years since Jim and Pam got married. Do you think they are still together, separated, divorced or open marriage
— christine teigen (@chrissyteigen) October 13, 2019
As you can see, most folks think Pam and Jim would still be together. But do folks really think they would be together or do people want them to be together because they idealized their relationship? I say the latter, and so did Chrissy. She recognized folks’ optimism, and then crushed their dreams with her dire predictions:
I think they’re together but Philly Jim likes a taste of the high life and bottle service with athletes and Pam still can’t figure out her phone so he never has to answer FaceTimes and he never gets caught
— christine teigen (@chrissyteigen) October 14, 2019
They never went to Austin. You know it and I know it. I talk about moving to Austin every other day and here I am. Not in Austin
— christine teigen (@chrissyteigen) October 14, 2019
But then Chrissy makes a startling yet statistically accurate assumption:
Actually you know what? Phyllis and Bob are def still together. Dwight and Angela still together. Michael and Holly definitely together. Mathematically (i got a C+) SOMEONE here has to be divorced. It’s Jim and Pam.
— christine teigen (@chrissyteigen) October 14, 2019
When I started at CB I’d only seen the British version of The Office, which wasn’t my favorite but my husband loved it. Based on many of your comments, I went back and watched the American version since. I liked it fine, but it wouldn’t be in my Top 10 favorite shows. And honestly, I never got the hoopla over Jim and Pam. I didn’t get any more excited about them than any of the other relationships on the show and I never saw how Jim was the greatest guy ever. And now I see I am not alone. Kate Hudson at Pajiba, from whom I lifted this story, started her article by saying that Jim, “was a monster.” I didn’t go into her article thinking that, but she makes a valid argument. I agree with Chrissy in her initial theory, that they are still married but Pam is frustrated because she forsake her career to follow Jim and they live separate and loveless lives. And Pam definitely regrets never using her art degree for anything more that kids’ crafts.
Honestly, I don’t think we should stop at Pam and Jim. There are plenty of marriages we should speculate about. Feel free to add your own:
Ross and Rachel (Friends) – divorced/remarried/divorced but co-parenting well (and unable to sustain a relationship with anyone else)
Ben and Leslie (Parks and Rec) – married. Happy, but only because they focus more on their careers than their marriage
Doug and Carol (ER) Divorced. Doug cheated, repeatedly.
Luke and Lorelai (Gilmore Girls) Divorced. Luke moved and never speaks to Lorelai, although he does call Rory on occasion.
Mindy and Danny (The Mindy Project) Married. I know! But jay-sus Christ are they insufferable to be around. Nobody ever comes to their dinner parties unless Mindy guilts them into it.
Photo credit: Avalon
Pam and Jim are DEFINITELY divorced. I agree with this assessment on all the couples- ESPECIALLY Ross & Rachel, Doug & Carol and Mindy & Danny.
What I will NOT agree with is your take on the British The Office. I watched it long before the American version and I loved it. The American version was good – though I never got into it like so many others did, but the UK version is still the best to me.
I really like Gervais (although I realize he often goes too far). The British version was a great show, just not for me. I can only handle so much cringe when watching a character crash and burn. That’s on me, not the show. But I was in the fetal position watching through my fingers for most of it. The final Christmas show was my favorite because of the redemption arc. I did not think the American version was better, just easier for me to watch because Michael was slightly less terrible a person that David (slightly).
Now Extras probably would be in my Top 10.
Jim bullied Dwight, an obvious autistic man, for years. Pam egged him on and then would feel bad and be his friend. Jim has moments of being romantic, but most of them were selfish and he didn’t consider what Pam might want. Remember him buying his childhood home? She seemed happy, but I don’t think she would have liked someone buying a house without discussing it first. Jim did that many times and again when he started his business. I think Chrissy’s prediction is accurate and in another few years when the kids are older she’ll finally leave Jim and pursue her own dreams.
Dwight was not austistic. Weird does not equal autism. An autistic person would not have been able to cope in that disorderly, irrational environment.
https://www.undercoverautie.com/blog/2017/12/13/dwight-schrute-the-office-and-autism
I am autistic and Dwight is written as a high functioning autistic, regardless whether the writers ever admit it.
Uhhh no. Dwight was NOT autistic.
Dwight’s a bit offbeat, but autistic? Where’d you get that from?
He doesn’t socialize very well and isn’t good with emotions. Remember that time Pam was crying because of Jim and Karen? Dwight hugged her and said something about it being her period. He wasn’t good with social clues at all.
Jim was awful IMO. Their relationship was like Narcissus and Echo. He liked her because she went along with him.
Let’s just count some of the egregious things he did:
1. Had a snit and moved to CT when she refused to end her engagement for him
2. Tried to punish her with Karen (and let’s not even get into how shabbily he treated Karen)
3. Bought a house without telling her
4. Invested money without telling her
5. Abandoned her with two young children to go to Philly
Not to mention how the writers ALWAYS made Pam fail. In general, they treated female characters very shabbily. Jan as a crazy b!tch infuriated me. She went from a competent professional to an unhinged incompetent mess (oh, and the backdrop was that she was on pain meds bc she had a breast augmentation to make Michael happy).
I’m done with this rant session, but there is wayyy more. But yeah, Jim sucked.
I always saw Ross and Rachel divorcing ultimately. There’s just too many missed chances behind them, and Ross is pursuing marriage for all the wrong reasons. He loves her, but there’s so much baggage. If they stayed together, it would be for the kids. (Although, I’m not as hard on Ross as some people are. His character doesn’t age well, but I find it kind of gross that people play off how abusive and cruel his first wife was in having him partake in his own cuckholding by framing her lesbian affair as a threesome.)
I can definitely see Jim and Pam divorcing. Not for any dramatic reason, but more in the sense that they just sort of drift away from each other over time without realizing it until it’s too late.
I agree about Ross. I think he gets a bad rap and the dynamics of his first divorce and how it was treated hasn’t aged well.
Furthermore the whole “we were on a break” being played for laughs between Ross and Rachel is silly. They absolutely WERE on a break and she did not specify what the limitations of said break would be. She doesn’t own him and he thought they weren’t together anymore.
Also it moved the attention away from why Rachel wanted to take a break in the first place, which was Ross’s insane jealousy and controlling behaviour. I really wish she had ended up with Gavin. They had great chemistry and he was intelligent and sweet and working in the same industry he wouldn’t have looked down on her interest in fashion the way Ross did. I do like Ross as a character but it felt they kept him and Rachel together for the wrong reasons. It was what the fans wanted though, so *shrugs*
Jim and Pam were assholes. Part of me kind of hopes that they stayed together so they didn’t spread their asshole behavior onto others.
They’re still together, but they’re unhappy. Jim probably cheats, emotionally if not physically. He’s about the chase. Pam is a wet blanket. Always has been.
I think Pam would be the one who cheats. She emotionally cheated on her fiance for years and something weird happened between her and the camera guy, Brian. Jim has never had a history of cheating.
The real question is….what about Pacey and Joey?
Mindy Project got soooooo bad after Danny left.
They have lists on buzzfeed about characters we grew up watching in movies and tv who are actually dirt bags. If this person existed in our lives we’d hate them but love them when they’re characters on a show.
There are things jim did that are not great:
Jim dumped amy adams character at a work event on a boat, so she couldn’t even leave and was stuck there until the event ended.
He only dated karen once he found out he was being transferred back to Scranton and didn’t want to go back into the same routine with pam, flirting all day then going home alone. As the days went by he went back to flirting with pam again only for karen to see and ask, ‘are you still attracted to her? I moved here for you.’ It was awful of him to use her like that. Just leave the company jim. Don’t string women along to try to get over pam when it doesn’t work, you want to be with her. She turned you down at the time so you have to remove yourself from her life entirely.
Art degree? Pam failed art school and wasn’t shown going back. I hope she was doing what Chrissy T. suggested, homemade art stuff she sold on etsy. Maintaining doing what you love whether your paid to do it or not- we all owe it to ourselves to do that. Obviously time, money, resources, etc are needed. She was a ‘single parent’ when Jim would go away for weeks at a time to work at the startup he started with college friends so I’m sure her art work took a back seat at that time BUT Jim stayed a dunder miflin for how many years solely for pam. That was the only reason he was there. I personally think pam was a bit spoiled knowing this and saw jim going after a career he loved as ‘competition’ for herself which was weird. You’re a person, why are you seeing jims career as a competition to you? I think she was a bit spoiled and wanted to remain his entire focus which IMO is selfish. Don’t get me wrong, after being with Roy I can relate to wanting to overcorrect that neglect from him with someone else, but its still unfair to jim who had all that time and energy to prank Dwight because he was at a job and company that didn’t challenge him. He stayed for pam, he knew he was meant to be with her and took a backseat for her. Then they got married, started their family and his college friends reached out and then he had an opportunity to be happy with his career. Many turn down opportunities in their career at certain times of their families lives, my kids are too young I can’t travel for work right now, that promotion would keep me from my kids too many hours each day I had to turn it down, etc. I really felt for jim wanting to be satisfied in his career for once. Pam stayed at dunder miflin because she felt safe and unchallenged, that job was ‘beneath her’ in terms of her intelligence, etc. but she was with roy for so long, over a decade, and IMO he was emotionally abusive and neglectful to her (remember when he wouldn’t even go out for a drink with her and her coworkers? She said if you want to date me you have to do boyfriend things.’ Seriously? You have to say that? He only did want the wanted to do and expected you to tag along, never what you wanted to do?) so she craved safety in every other aspect of her life. I can relate to that. She saw jim move ‘up’ into a career that really challenged him and she thought she’d associated her with dunder miflin a job that was beneath him when in reality that job was beneath pam too. Her low self esteem is the issue in all of this IMO. (LOL look at how much I’ve written? I’ve clearly watched this show a lot.)
I loved that jim loved pam completely as a human being, he wasn’t just attracted to her and that lust put ‘rose colored glasses’ on him so he told himself he loved when really he just thought she was cute. They clearly were friends, had a similar sense of humor, he listened to her and they were perceptive of each others feelings. Roy literally said I like that pam has you at the office to talk to so she doesn’t come home and talk to me. Seriously Roy? In my early 20s guys only seemed to pay attention to me when they wanted to go home with someone. Guys who didn’t like women, they were attracted to women, but didn’t like women.
So I would have loved a guy like Jim who actually liked me, as a person, wanted to get to know me. Not just pretend to care when really he just wanted one thing. That was my enjoyment of their relationship, he liked her as a full human being he wasn’t just attracted to her and that’s it, which a lot of adult men are.
Jim had flaws and made mistakes, but I don’t’ like when a show portrays people as perfect. Humans aren’t perfect. Pam wasn’t either. She strung jim along for years then when he said he loved her she said, ‘I’m sorry you misinterpreted our friendship.’ Everyone at the office sees it pam, its not in jims mind.
This is a great analysis. I see them both as flawed, but in love with one another, and willing to sacrifice for one another at times, while also acting out of fear, or hurt at other times. I don’t think they would be divorced because I think Pam doesn’t mind being the “passive” one who goes along with Jim’s big plans, most of the time. I would be bothered if a guy bought us his parents ugly as eff house without talking to me, but she seemed to love it and see it as romantic. I think their dynamic of Jim taking the lead mostly worked for them. I could see them in marriage counselling, probably about Jim working too much and Pam feeling lonely, and not having much outside of her family. Then I could see her getting back into her art as the
kids got older, maybe eventually teaching art to seniors or becoming an art teacher at a school or something. Could see Jim having to be conscious about creating a good work life balance, scheduling date nights etc. But ultimately I would like to believe that his love for his family would push him to be a better/more present husband and father. I also wonder if his ambition was partly from a sense of inadequacy and getting a high from feeling important at his fancy new job. I think therapy would help him work through that. He would probably still have issues from feeling rejected by Pam for so long. I know, I’m also looking way too deep into a show I haven’t watched in years! (But was obsessed with – esp Jim and Pa)
Superficial side note-how hot is George Clooney in that pic? Ugh