I went to bed before the polls closed in Montana last night. I didn’t want to see the results. I’m not going to claim that I was some moody, all-knowing, prophetic Cassandra, but after the 2016 presidential election, I will never again doubt the ability of white people to vote against their own interests across the board. The reason I’m making “white people” take the L on this is because Montana is not a racially diverse state. Racial issues that come into play in a state like Virginia or South Carolina or Ohio don’t come into play in a state-wide election in Montana. So this election was largely just white folks deciding that they would rather elect a psychopath who violently assaults journalists for asking questions about healthcare. This was a vote for violence, for dishonesty, for punishing poor people for being poor, for punishing sick people for being sick. And when it all goes to hell, they’ll probably just blame Barry Obama, right?
The election was closer than people were expecting, but let’s not kid ourselves: Greg Gianforte won by a healthy margin. The vote was 51% for Gianforte and 44% for Rob Quist, the decent-seeming Democrat who talked openly about healthcare and never once violently assaulted a journalist on the eve of an election. Montanans told the rest of the country that they preferred to be represented in Congress by a violent bully who openly lies and blames his victim. Why is this not surprising?
Gianforte made a reference to his misdemeanor assault charge in his victory speech, saying that he “made a mistake” as his supporters laughed, like it was the funniest joke in the world. That makes me sick, but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. After all, there were women defending Donald Trump about the “grab ‘em by the p-ssy” tape. What is wrong with these (white) people that they are literally voting for violence and assault?
Photos courtesy of Getty.
Man, white people are ANGRY. None of this is about politics, is it? Christ.
But whatever you do, don’t call us racist!!!
F*cking bloody hell this country has gone to shit.
Trying so hard not to sink into a hole of hatred and existential depression. If it makes you feel better, early voting is a huge thing in Montana, and apparently their were people who wanted to change their votes yesterday, after the body slamming thing. But that might be just as depressing, because being a Trump-supporting asshole wasn’t enough to keep these people from voting for this guy. He had to physically assault a journalist. F****ck.
That assault was a huge perk for those voters. I made the mistake of checking the comments on various sites and they actually admire him for being “tough on libt*rds” and “not being a p*ssy”.
Toxic masculinity will kill us all.
and I wonder if they’d feel the same way if Jesse Walters or Sean Hannity took a few punches to the face. much deserved, sure, but…
I’m so sad. I have a good friend in Big Sky and there are a handful of decent folk there. And omg my next interracial romance is set outside of Billings and it’s already gone to the editors. Ugh. Human decency is in ICU…
consider, though, this possibility.
this guy losing might actually have been better for their party as a whole. if he lost, the whole assault thing “goes away” because no one would be talking about how the guy who reps Montana is a criminal.
he won, but he has to go to court to face the charges in a couple of weeks. if he doesn’t plead out, and is found guilty, he could face 6 months in jail. He won’t, I’m sure, but their party being saddled with this violent jailbird is NOT a good look for them. expect this assault charge to be ALL that the dems talk about and pin on him. if they don’t let up and keep up the “the GOP likes to have violent criminals in their party and they look the other way” thing going, he might get pressure from his own party to resign so they don’t have yet ANOTHER black eye.
eh, who am I kidding. they embraced a treasonous rapist, so…
Apparently a surprising number of congressmen have served from in jail. Honestly it likely wouldn’t do anything. His followers won’t care.
You’re dang right I’m angry. Angry that my fellow white people are so stupid and un-American. This is just embarrassing.
Have u been to Montana? It’s basically the south of the pacific nw
It’s cultural/ identity politics: God, guns, the Bible, prosperity gospel, looks and talks like me. They don’t actually pay attention to the policies or care. They assume he is “one of us so he will vote for our interests”.
In reality the only thing he has in common with them is skin color. He is an ex-Silicon Valley multi-Millionaire out to protect his own interests and that of his Millionaire class while forcing the White Rural class to stay poor and have no insurance.
Did I say multi-Millionaire? My bad. He’s a billionaire.
Yes they are. So angry. I don’t want to live in this country anymore.
Wow. Sorry to hear that. Where do you think is better for you to live? And is that a consideration for you? You shouldn’t live where you don’t want to. That’s 360 degree misery for you and everyone around you.
Worse part is from reports I saw, many Montana voters PROUDLY voted for this guy yesterday.
Aside from his violence, his policies are the worst. This guy says that there should be no social security/retirement because no where in the Bible does it say that humans should retire. I mean WTF?
Looks like personally losing benefits is the only thing these voters will ever understand.
Serfs don’t retire, they work ’til they drop! I swear, the US and UK (I’m a Brit) working class seem to be willingly ushering in some sort of medieval feudalism, whereby we just happily make the rich richer and more powerful, whilst making ourselves skint, miserable and powerless. I’m completely aghast at what is happening in our countries right now. The mass stupidity is just heartbreaking and seemingly never-ending.
Brilliant comment Manjit
@manjit word!
You nailed it. We’ve devolved to the feudal era again. I used to wonder how the French Revolution could happen. I don’t wonder anymore.
But the Republicans own this dude. And he’s going to be the newest albatross to hang around their necks in the next election.
Couldn’t agree more.
Because the working class all believe someday they will get lucky and their lives will improve. Someday they’ll be rich! So they vote for the laws that will benefit the lifestyle they hope to have and not their present “temporary” circumstances.
THIS! How can so many people be so blind??!
Great comment, Manjit. I’m in Australia, and it feels like we are slowly heading the same way. People are having to work longer hours for very little extra remuneration, and with the loss of many hard-won rights. Despite our supposedly strong anti-discrimination and human rights laws, workers don’t seem to have much protection from unscrupulous employers. The retirement age keeps rising, the rules for accessing OUR OWN compulsory superannuation in our later years keep changing, making it a minefield to navigate when it becomes necessary to do s, and then there are financial penalties for doing so. Workplace laws and agreements favour the employer, and it’s particularly bad for young workers with little or no knowledge or confidence to negotiate their orkplace agreements, or protect themselves if things go wrong. Yet the conservatives are far more concerned about deporting a few brown-skinned people, inciting hatred or bringing back the death penalty…
At least we don’t have politicians like this despicable mongrel in Montana, or a “leader” like trump….yet.
^^^This comment is the essence of truth. For ALL of us.
This man is horrible. Seth Meyers breaks it down, starts @3:00 https://youtu.be/-dC2HvHhW5g
What a prick.
Republican voters will just vote for anyone, were there any other candidates besides the Democrat?
This didn’t surprise me at all. Not just because I’m sure the assault only made him look great in the eyes of Republican voters, but that it was already unlikely since Montana hasn’t voted Democrat in a long time, many people had already voted and it doesn’t sound like the DNC threw a lot of support or attention Quist’s way. Proving they are still asleep at the wheel in terms of being proactive about supporting all Democratic candidates.
I’d be interested to see what the voter turnout numbers were, because if Democrat voters STILL aren’t turning out, I don’t know how they expect anything to change in 2018.
The DCCC, not the DNC, funds house races. Before the DCCC was shamed into putting $600,000 into the race, James Clyburn told the NYT the committee was essentially only interested in backing sure things. As much as I respect Pelosi, Hoyer, and Clyburn, it is time for new leadership among House Democrats.
They just will NEVER learn and it’s so effin frustrating.
Montana’s lone house seat has long been a safe GOP seat. It made no sense for the DCCC to throw away money in Montana that will be needed next year to help candidates who have a realistic shot at flipping the vulnerable GOP seats, especially the dozen or so who represent districts Hillary won in November.
Both this and the Kansas special election weren’t all bad news for the Democrats. They lost by less than 10 percentage points in both districts. Compare that to November 2016 where they got blown out.
@Kelly If the Democrats don’t start contesting elections in every state they will never rebuild their base. Also, the DSCC and DGA took a chance on Montana and won a senate seat and the governship. Democrats can win state-wide in Montana.
I’ve been reading 538, and they pointed out there are over 120 districts that are MORE left leaning than this Montana district. It makes sense to save funds to put towards those districts where we are more likely to win.
In this district, they lean GOP by about 20 points. If the Republican won this race by 8 points, that means that the Democrats are doing 13 points better than their average. This is GREAT!
In the 4 special elections so far, Democrats are doing about 14 points better than their average. This means we have a real chance of taking the GOP seats that average a 13 point GOP lean.
To be fair, I think the DCCC knew it was an unwinnable race and figured it would be a waste of resources to put (likely limited) resources into it.
Plus the assault and battery (and the reporting about Gianforte’s Russia ties) happened the day before the election, and having more resources wouldn’t have helped. Had it happened a few weeks beforehand, perhaps.
@ohdear Take a look at the DCCC’s FEC filings. They are rolling in money. They have out raised Republicans in every cycle for well over a decade. Financial resources are not a problem for the committee. The problem is out of touch leadership who cannot win in today’s political environment.
I think the DCCC assumed it was an unwinnable race, and it makes me mad they didn’t even think about supporting their candidate until the very end. The relatively small margin of victory proves the Democrats could have had a shot but they blew it. I agree the national leaders are out of touch. There is a groundswell of resistance and organizing going on at the state and local level, and it feels like the national Democratic party is ignoring it.
“Financial resources are not a problem for the committee.”
I disagree. House races are so numerous, it is going to take a ton of money to fund these campaigns. There are 120 districts that are more left leaning than this Montana district. It is better strategy to put resources on those we are most likely to actually win. It has been decades since this area had a democratic rep.
@Tiffany the facts are the facts. Look at the DCCC’s FEC filings. They have millions in cash on hand. They have plenty of money is invest in every contested race. They chose not to.
Millions spread out over hundreds of races disappears very quickly. The fact is that “millions” isn’t that much when you are spending millions per race in dozens of races.
For example, the RNC has spent almost $7M on the Georgia special election. That contest has a much likelier chance to go to the dems, so it would be better if the dems spend $10M in Georgia than spend it in Montana.
@Tiffany – it isn’t millions spread out over hundreds of races. Many sitting Democrats will not be challenged so no money will go to those districts. Democrats will not be able to recruit candidates for every Republican district so no money will go to those districts. They are going to raise hundreds of millions of dollars that will be spent on incumbents in tight races and places where they think they can pick up open or weak seats. It is outrageous that they have not more strongly contested the specials.
All representatives are up for election in 2018. There are over 120 seats currently held by the GOP that are more left leaning than Montana. Even in races that are fairly secure (for dems and gop), some money will be spent.
For an example, if you take the top 100 red seats that are potentially winnable by the democrats, and they spend $10M on each race like they are going to in Georgia, that is $1 billion dollars. The DCCC will not raise that much money. Montana lies so far outside of the likely wins, it wouldn’t have been a wise investment, IMO.
Because the special elections are happening earlier, it can be easy to be emotionally attached to them. I think it is wise to play the long game and put resources towards those contests that are winnable.
@Tiffany 🙂 – If the Democrats target a couple dozen vulnerable GOP House seats, recruit good candidates, and fund them, then they have a shot at retaking the House. Right now, those seats are in states like California and Illinois that went strongly for Hillary. Some of the current incumbents, like a couple in Illinois, are attracting the anger and ire of their constituents for refusing to hold town hall meetings, have public office hours at times that allow more people to come to meet their representative, and most importantly, their votes for that abomination of a health care bill earlier in the month.
Finding good candidates is important. For states like Montana and Kansas, candidates like the Blue Dog Democrats that are now mostly gone would be ideal. Those were the ones that helped get the ACA through Congress and were the first victims of the Tea Party in 2010. In most cases, the Tea Party replacement has been a shadow of their Democrat predecessor. I lived in South Dakota and we lost a fantastic Democratic Congresswoman in 2010 who actually cared about the state and being on committees that were relevant. Her replacement is more interested in fundraising, going on foreign trips and taking selfies, and making sure she gets back for her kids’ sporting games on the weekends, all at tax payers’ expense.
Kelly, I agree. Find a couple/few dozen democrats in areas where the GOP is vulnerable and put lots of financial power behind them. I don’t think we should be stingy, but I think the priority should be the areas where we have to move the needle the least. And you are also right: as much as “blue dogs” have pissed me off in the past, we do need them.
IMO, right now is when we as citizens need to help the party vet potential candidates. Compared with last mid-terms, the democrats have increased their declared candidates by over 1000%. We have a lot of newbies jumping in the ring, which is great. This also means that we need to help vet them, and when we find a gem, support them.
Unfortunately, Quist was a weak candidate — inexperienced with a history of financial/legal issues (suing and being sued, failure to report income on taxes). Someone who was a bigger public figure before running might have been able to overcome the lawsuit- and tax-related negatives, which were not anything hugely scandalous, but overall Quist didn’t come across as personally compelling for the type of person who might historically lean Republican but be considering voting Democrat in the post-Trump era. The fact that he lost by only 6% is actually shocking when you consider that 2/3 of the vote was already cast by mail before the assault story broke, and that Montana is predominately a red state. The Trump-supporting types who get a sick thrill out of Gianforte’s thuggery are loud, but the numbers make it pretty clear that Quist got a lot of votes from people who would likely have voted Republican if the R’s hadn’t run Trump-loving asshole Gianforte. This was not a resounding endorsement of Trumpery.
No surprises there. We predicted this yesterday. Liberals just dont friggin vote. We just rant online. Thats why what Obama accomplished was such a miracle. And for my next prediction, Trump will have eight years unless we can get him impeached. We better pray that obstruction charge sticks.
I mean….even if liberals turned out yesterday, are you really surprised that a place like Montana went to a Republican? Liberals can only do so much when they are living in a conservative majority state.
One of their current Senators and their current Governor are Democrats. It may be a conservative (small c) State but Democrats can win there if they are conservative (small c). Young people just dont show up for these special elections and young people comprise the bulk of the liberal vote. Real life apathy gave him that win. They worked out their anger on twitter instead of at the ballot.
Do you have a graphic or a link that breaks down the vote by age? Would be curious to see your comment actually illustrated with statistics.
Anyway, this seat has historically ALWAYS gone to a Republican. The fact that it was so close this year–less than a 20% margin–is actually really significant and is getting lost in all the negativity here.
(and believe me I get it, it’s incredibly hard to be positive right now)
Kitten I totally agree with your comments. Once I saw the numbers on early voting I figured he would win. I’m surprised it was that close, pleasantly so. Really the recent elections have made me rethink my mail in voting. With the way our media is working lately it seems so much can come out at the very last minute. Even though so far I’ve been happy with my vote every time that may not be the case in the future and I feel somewhat sorry for the people who wanted to change their votes once this jerk showed how awful he is (although you would think people should be able to figure that out from his words alone).
I agree, Kitten.
The democrats did about 13 points better in this race than they do on average in this area, it is just that the GOP tends to win by 20 points here.
Mass early voting meant that the assault was never going to have that big of an impact on the vote. It was just too close to the election.
When I first saw the story about the assault, the article mentioned that 250,000 ballots had already been received, the total vote ended up being only about 377,000. So I don’t think the problem was that people voted for a guy that was attacked a reporter (since most of them had already voted before that happened), but that so few showed up on election day to vote for his opponent.
Don’t get me wrong, I will judge people for voting for this guy for his political views, just most of his supporters had already cast their votes by the time he body slammed the reporter.
^^^This.
He looks like a psycho.
He’s a sociopath, his “apology” was textbook, full of I, me, I, and no direct apology or direct reference to any injury he caused the journalist in question. And once again, I find myself apologizing to England and other countries for the lunacy that is happening in the US. It’s chilling that guys like this have been hiding in the woodwork, just biding their time.
I can’t believe this. When Don Lemon was interviewing Ben Jacobs last night, Ben looked so sweet and seemed like he was still shocked. I thought he was going to cry.
It took way too long for an apology. Ì wonder if Gianforte still would’ve apologized if he had lost the election.
I doubt, especially since Gianforte’s initial response was to blame the “liberal” reporter for being “aggressive.”
I’m honestly so sickened by this and really beginning to lose hope that things will ever get better. Even before the assault, Gianforte was a terrible candidate (as someone noted upthread, he’s a creationist who doesn’t believe in Social Security because Noah built the arc when he was 600 years old, so why can’t all old people work??). He also stands to benefit from the repeal of the ACA with an $800 million tax break. I just … It’s so disheartening. Rethuglicans have taken off the sheep disguises and are proudly showing the world that they were wolves this whole time, and yet republican voters keep voting them in because they have an R behind their name. And the rest of us are at the mercy of these voters, who are a minority, but because of the outdated electoral college they have undue influence on the country.
Ryan said he had to apologize and Ryan holds the power to deny him his seat. He wouldn’t apologize if not ordered to do so.
Most of Montana took part in early voting so they had cast their votes for this idiot before the assault. Disgusting that they were voting for him any way because he is a jerk who won’t represent their interests and he has Russian ties but they didn’t ignore the assault because it hadn’t happened yet. People were calling yesterday to ask if they could change their votes but the law doesn’t allow that.
Congress can refuse to seat him but, as many of the extreme right wingers are now blaming liberals for the violence in our society and saying the journalist deserved it, they’ll seat him. Because we can always depend on Ryan’s House to do the wrong thing.
It was said that some of the early voters asked if they could change their votes after the assault happened. Unfortunately, it was too late.
Lots of politicians have been saying he should step down and he wouldn’t really be warmly welcomed.
Of course it’s the liberals fault. Every thing bad is always our fault! I’ve read about the “obnoxious liberal reporter” deserving to be attacked . That’s terrible for them to say
If this guy is seated, it is Paul Ryan’s fault. Ryan could do the decent thing, realize that most people cast their vote prior to the assault, and just refuse to seat a man who is facing assault charges.
Paul Ryan is a coward. His dream of destroying what we used to call the “safety net” for the old and poor blinds him to everything else.
Dear white Americans,
WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?
I said it yesterday and I’ll sadly say it again: in America today there is only one qualification needed to get all republicans votes: run on the republican ticket. That’s it! No one will look at the person you are, the actions you take, the policies you hold. You can be the biggest scumbag alive but you’ll still get those votes.
What an ugly volatile creep! Montana voting for Gianforte makes this State one I will never, never want to visit. I truly think the Republicans have lost their way as intelligent human beings and are going the way of authoritarian countries that put up with such nonsense as beating up on reporters. Who ever thought it could happen in America but it IS happening. Trump with the help of such outlets as Fox created an alternative universe of lies. I am thankful the Fox news people who actually saw what happened spoke the truth. The entire incident is sickening and like Trump reveals the ugliness that is embedded in America. Hillary once said she had faith in the “goodness” of Americans. She was wrong.
Yes, she was wrong.
Yup. The truest thing Hillary ever said was calling these people a “basket of deplorables,” because that is what they are. Only a morally bereft, vile person would vote for someone like Gianforte. As I noted above, even before the assault he was a terrible candidate who supports discrimination, throwing millions of people off of insurance (I’m sure he’ll be enjoying his $800 million tax break!), and eliminating Social Security.
It’s Montana. I’ve been to Montana. Anyone else? Of course they are going to vote red.
Even the elk vote red there. Well, except for my family there. They’re usually blue in a sea of red.
I lived in Montana years ago and I’m not surprised. There were some liberals around a college town like Missoula and in a few of the big resort/ski towns, but mostly it was hardcore conservatives in the rural areas. I heard about more domestic violence, abuse and unwed teenagers in my brief time living in Montana than I ever did in the south. Seriously, I was coming from south Georgia and thought they were incredibly backward. Beautiful state though.
The Republicans ran a $2.5 million smear campaign against Quist. Democrats responded with $600,000 for ads. Democrats can’t expect to win races they don’t seriously contest.
Montanan Celebitchy here!
In my opinion the election of Greg Gianforte is a gross extension of the rhetoric that allowed Trump to ascend to the White House. There is a lot of dark money at play behind the scenes. The Koch brothers have dumped an ungodly amount of money into making sure Trump was elected and likewise Gianforte. That said, I will never in a million years understand why there are so many stupid angry whites people. Hopefully my state will wake up but it probably won’t happen until all our public lands are auctioned off and rural hospitals start closing and every before and after school program shut down. Maybe then. We’re in for a long, hard fight.
Good luck! I hope it doesn’t take too long for the stupid people to wake up
Even with early voting-this is a guy who shoots prairie dogs for fun. Who believes that the dinosaurs died in Noah’s flood. Who doesn’t believe in social security because Noah lived to be 600 and never needed govt aid (I’m not kidding)
He was still leading before the assault-so not surprised he still won.
Ok so will he give up his government pension? Because who needs that when he can keep working until he drops dead at 70 (sorry I don’t see someone with anger issues living to be 600).
Also, there’s no proof that Noah actually exists (GASP!). Yes I know I’m going straight to h3LL for saying that.
Did he actually say those two things about Noah? I really hope he didn’t….
He not only said it, but has an entire museum dedicated to it.
http://billingsgazette.com/news/features/magazine/dinosaur-museum-presents-biblical-view-of-origins/article_1c9ac218-bab0-11de-84f1-001cc4c002e0.html
Please see the video on YouTube it’s pretty funny though bizarre.
Ladies, keep resisting. Montana is a deeply red state. The fact that Gianforte was that close is something we should be proud of! Second, 2/3 of the votes were mailed in before the election day. The only thing that could have helped Quist is same day registration and voting surge.
So, those who are red will always bleed red. But we should keep up the pressure. Enjoy this three day weekend but on Tuesday we go back to calling and pressuring our elected officials.
Yes, we will! The Resistance is a marathon, not a sprint. We must do everything we can to push the deplorables to the fringes where they belong. I am in a red state, but the cities here are very blue, and they are the true economic engines of progress.
I heard the audio. This guy is a real see you next Tuesday. Montana is full of people like this. One clerk heard about the assault (what he’s charged with) and said “sounds like my kind of candidate.” THIS is America 2017 folks.
Please don’t use the c-word to describe this prick. It’s insulting to people with vaginas and has nothing to do with him.
In my opinion any Montanan who voted for this piece of crap deserves to lose their healthcare. When they do I don’t want to see any video of constituents yelling at Town Hall meetings because at this point they lose their right to complain about anything.
No one deserves to lose their healthcare. Human rights aren’t limited to people who agree with you.
I don’t see anything wrong with Jezi’s comment, personally.
People who believe that healthcare shouldn’t be provided by the government don’t deserve to have healthcare provided by the government.
Seems fair to me.
*shrugs*
If I think government should not tell me how fast to drive, do I get to drive any speed I want?
How about if you don’t believe health care is everyone’s right then you don’t have a right to health care. Sounds about right to me.
Sure you can drive any speed you want Megan, as long as you’re aware that you may get arrested for it.
But that’s a false equivalence.
Better analogy would be that if you are against female bodily autonomy and your vote reflects that and maybe you even protest an abortion clinic here and there, you should not have the right to have an abortion.
As Robyn said, you don’t get to vote to take something away from others and have it for yourself. Can’t have your cake and eat it too.
And sadly, people need to learn this lesson the hard way, so that maybe they’ll put more thought and intention into who they vote for and WHAT they vote for.
Rights are for everyone, that is what makes them rights. If you want to pick and chose who is deserving and who is not, how are you any different than Republicans?
But it’s not a *right* to these people, Megan, that’s what you’re overlooking in your argument. THAT is the conservative approach to healthcare: that it is not an inherent right, that it should NOT be subsidized by the government and that people should be responsible for getting it on their own or through their employers.
And I’m not picking and choosing: THEY are. My choice is healthcare for all and my vote reflects that.
The problem with your outlook is that it perpetuates the very idea that got us in this mess in the first place: that it’s fine to vote for your own interests while ignoring the impact your vote has on others. Not coincidentally, this same attitude forms the very heart of conservative ideology: ME ME ME.
And while I like you a lot and generally respect your opinion, Megan, you do a disservice to people by saying that they are entitled to healthcare regardless of how they vote. IT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY and people are finally starting to learn this. It’s why 55% of Americans now support the Affordable Care Act, up from 42% in November. Sometimes people need to realize the impact of their vote and what it means to have something taken away from them and the ones they love. If the message you send is “Don’t worry, vote against government-subsidized healthcare because your political party told you to. The other side will vote in favor of it and we’ll be all set” then what exactly are you accomplishing?
People need to understand that their vote MATTERS, that these issues WILL directly affect them. Telling them that it’s ok to vote however they want and the rest of Americans will pick up the slack is counterproductive.
Anyway, we can agree to disagree that’s fine.
I agree with Kitten. It has nothing to do with affording rights to only the people that agree with me (us). Its a “care” thing. I care about minorities, poor, elderly, disabled, etc., and I think we, as a society, should collectively make sure their needs are met. People that vote self-interest don’t care about these people. So I don’t give a flying crap if these voters suffer. They deserve to be left out in the cold because that’s what they intended to happen to the “others” just so they could save a few bucks a month on their taxes. I don’t wish bad things upon them, but I don’t care if it happens to them. Its called Karma. I’ll save my sympathy for people that truly deserve it.
People who voted Republican won’t be the only people who lose their healthcare. People who voted Democratic, didn’t vote, or have been disenfranchised will also lose their healthcare. In your arguement everyone should suffer to teach Republican voters a lesson? Sorry, I just don’t buy that. We don’t become a better nation by punishing those with whom we disagree.
“People who voted Democratic, didn’t vote, or have been disenfranchised will also lose their healthcare.”
And who’s fault is that?
“In your arguement everyone should suffer to teach Republican voters a lesson?”
No it’s not, Megan, and despite your sarcasm, I think I made a sound, cohesive argument about why I feel the way that I do.
And you chosing to ignore what I said in favor of hyperbolic statements that have nothing to do with my comments is on you, quite frankly.
If you really wanted to have a productive exchange, you would have stayed on-topic. Jezi never said that nobody should have health insurance, she said that the people who voted against government-subsidized healthcare might actually learn something if it is taken away from them. That “something” being that maybe the party they vote for doesn’t have their best interests in mind.
Anyway, I’m done with this conversation. Have a nice weekend, dude.
@Kitten in the abstract I see your point, but in reality I would never take away someone’s healthcare to teach them a lesson.
Thank you Kitten, you get my point exactly. Megan, if the republicans are showing you a healthcare bill and it shows you that they are taking away more then giving you then why would you continuously vote them back in? Healthcare is provided by the government here and they have the power to fix what we have now and they chose to do worse and you still vote for them, then no, don’t complain. You did it to yourself and you did it to others who need that healthcare. It’s obvious that people aren’t learning because they keep making the same mistakes.
Exactly. WTF do people think we’re doing when we go into that voting booth? It is literally the one chance we have to voice our choice; to show the country what we want for ourselves and our fellow Americans. If one choses to use that opportunity to take away government-subsidized healthcare, then that’s THEIR choice but they must live with the consequences of their actions.
Right! And those of us who pay attention and vote the right way deserve to be pissed at those who voted wrong and hurt us too.
@Juls and Jezi I care about everyone’s rights, not just those who agree with me and vote the way I vote.
Then don’t complain when you get just what you vote for.
@Jezi Your comment makes no sense since I only vote Democratic. It seems the notions of equality and compassion offend you, which sounds decidedly like the other side of the aisle.
@Megan, if you actually read my comment, I actually stated it has nothing to do with people that “don’t agree with me” which you keep harping on. I specifically said I have zero compassion for people that have no compassion for others. Your fixation on semantics is preventing you from seeing the broader point we are trying to make.
@Juls I see the point you are trying to make. You claim to be compassionate, but you would have people suffer and perhaps die to see how wrong it is to oppose healthcare.
@Juls- it’s such a flawed argument and it seems like Megan is arguing just to assert how right she’s is instead of arguing to get to the truth.
The idea that people are inherently entitled to the very thing they are voting against is at best, condescending and at its worst, an indictment of the entire electoral process. What’s the point of voting at all then? Megan thinks everyone should have everything, even if they are actively saying with their vote that they don’t want it. That simply doesn’t make sense.
@Kitten Do not put words in my mouth. What I said is healthcare is a human right, ergo, we are all equally entitled to it.
Megan I don’t know what world you live in but in this world most countries pay for their healthcare through their government. Either they get it for paying taxes which means those with higher income subsidize those with low income through universal healthcare or you pay based on your income or through your employer like here. Or you can live in a country that doesn’t provide healthcare to their citizens. We all have a right to healthcare yes but do we always get it? No. We here in this country vote for the people who believe in providing certain social services. Now you and I who vote democrat are voting for those who believe in affordable healthcare for most Americans by making the top 1% pay for their fair share so the rest of us can benefit without hurting us financially. The republicans don’t like this and want to make it so they get tax cuts and we lose our benefits. So why would people vote republican? And knowing what they will get then why complain? I’m not understanding what you’re arguing about. Maybe you just like to argue.
@Jezi – I think people are effing nuts for voting Republican for just about every reason they cite for voting Republican. It astounds me that people do not understand entitlements in America and it leaves me SMDH when they actually vote for candidates who promise to take them away. But that doesn’t mean they don’t still need healthcare. We all do, And I believe it is a right. So, no matter how you vote, I will defend your right to healthcare, even if you hate me for it, because I think it is the right thing to do.
Believe me, my beliefs have never been challenged as they have been by Trump and the deplorables. Some days I think Trump should burn it all down just to make sure these bastards get run out of town. But then I check myself. We need to fight like hell to hang on to the progress we have made and continue to try to rebuild the Democratic base.
I don’t like to argue especially since you, Juls, Kitten and I are on the right side of this issue.
@Megan Yes I agree with you. It is everyone’s right to have healthcare but what can we do if people keep making it harder by voting for the people who don’t want them to have good quality care at affordable prices? We can fight and stand up for what’s right but we can’t do it all. At some point these people have to do the right thing.
As a European I will never understand why so many Americans are against health care and tuition free school education. It really makes no sense to me.
Because a right wing media complex (radio & tv) has been in place for nearly 30 yrs telling them what to think. Fox News has practically become state media at this point…they ignore reality every night even though it is cratering their ratings.
I’m not one of those Americans, but I’ve tried really hard to figure this out myself.
Basically, it’s all based on a myth: that if you work hard enough, you succeed. People pride themselves on the belief that they don’t need help from anyone, and they look down on those who do. Never mind the fact that many of these people DO depend on government aid, and all of them benefit from taxpayer money in some way. Their identities revolve around not needing help, so they refuse to make any changes or sacrifices to help anyone else. They completely miss the fact that we’re all in this together, and we ALL benefit when we invest in health and education.
Self determination and free markets are fundamental America values. People want healthcare, but many are skeptical of mandates and government run programs.
Education for grades K-12 is both free and compulsory in America.
The public education system in this country is a joke. It is one of the strongest reinforcers of institutionalized racism we have. The quality is almost always directly related to zip code and income. Want to predict how a school will score on standardized tests? Look at the % of students who qualify for free or reduced lunch. And the school to prison pipeline is real for many minority students. Right now the health care system exists to enrich insurance companies, medical specialists (not primary providers), big pharma and hospital administrators, not to care for sick people. If Trump and Devos can manage to privatize public schools the same will happen. And I happen to think that taking care of one another is also an American value.
@aang The public school system is not perfect, but it is not a joke. The US ranks 7th in the world for literacy. Poverty impacts many aspects of a child’s life, including performance at school. That does not mean the blame lies exclusively with the school.
States manage public education, which means they have the right to enbrace or ignore federal education policy. If you want to fight DeVos’ insane agenda, calling public education a joke won’t be helpful.
I’ll just have to disagree. I graduated from a working class, but mostly white suburb. The school was well equipped and newish. My first job as a teacher in one of the poorest districts in the country was a shock. The facilities, class sizes, and materials were so poor that it was almost impossible to teach. Not enough books for the kids to take home so they only had access to them in school. This was before the internet. Homework was impossible. Many of the kids were ELL and had no idea what I was saying half the time. But they still had to pass state exams to graduate. So most of them didn’t. And the US ranks about 45th in literacy, not 7th. Cuba and Azerbaijan rank near the top, so the idea that poor kids can’t be taught is fiction. Our school system is segregated by race and class, reinforcing social status for the most vulnerable kids. I live in one of the wealthiest districts in my county and our schools just spent $10+ million on a new athletic field. And my daughter is getting a top notch education, in a building stocked with the newest technology and equipment, a first rate music program that sends kids to Berkley School of Music and Juilliard every year, and more sports than you can imagine. And when the school does fall short, I can hire a private tutor. Meanwhile the kids a few blocks over who go to city schools don’t always have access to computers that work, or art and music classes. And when they have a struggling teacher their parents can’t step in and pay for a tutor. I’ve recently returned to teaching as a sub in our poor city schools, and things haven’t improved in the two decades I’ve been away raising my children. So I guess by “joke” I meant that the idea of a free education for all is a joke because it exists for some, and for others it is just a place to warehouse kids till we send them to jail.
Wow aang as a non-american that is so disturbing. I hope private schools never catch on here.
@Megan, here in BC school is compulsory until grade 10. After that it’s the student’s choice to continue. I’m not sure what the other provinces do.
I can’t understand it either.
A few days ago I was shocked to find out people there don’t have free health-care.
It’s like, “what are their taxes paying for then?, what’s the government supposed to be there for if they’re not supporting people’s basic needs?”.
Really, really shocking.
Early voting. That’s why he won. People tried to change their votes and couldn’t.
The democratic base is fired up, but the voters who have been awakened thanks to Trump’s victory are also fired up. But what’s driving them is anger…this is an ugly time in american politics, Although, it does look like Ossooff in Georgia is pulling away, so that’s one upside.
I honestly hate this country right now.
This is the U.S. we’re talking about?
I just keep expecting more. Hoping for more. Why are we determined to go backwards?
I am forever disappointed.
One tiny, but potentially amusing, by-product of this obscenity: for a short time, this oaf will be THE FACE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY!
I am seriously considering having another child in my early 40’s just to add another brown voter to the rolls in 18 years. Remember the quote from Braveheart “if we can’t get them out, we’ll breed them out”? That’s my long game. More brown babies.
That’s both awesome and funny, aang.
DO IT! I had my son in my early 40s, and my body is surviving better than I expected. More well-loved brown babies growing up to be compassionate and responsible voters — bring it on!
Well, if Cady Heron can win Spring Fling queen for supposedly pushing Regina George under a bus, then why would anyone be surprised this dousche won? I’m pretty sure beating up that reporter gave him some brownie points for other pieces of shit in Montana.
Montana is a red state that Trump carried by 20 points and many people casted early votes. I’m not sure why anyone is surprised but stop blaming this bullsh*t on white Americans. FULL STOP. Many of us don’t support candidates like Gianforte or Trump. Want to lose in 2018 & 2020? Keep using the same us vs them tactics Republicans use.
I’m white and I can clearly see it is mostly, largely white people who support Trump and people who beat up journalists. As a white person I simply do have to ask what the hell is wrong with us white people … what’s our problem that so many of us think subhuman behavior is okay?
Montana is a pretty white state. I mean, if that’s who voted Russipublican, that’s who earned it. The crowds I choose to move in are active liberal voters (some family, of course…), but come on – white people keep voting for this nonsense. The one upside is that people were trying to change their after hearing reports of the assault (which begs the question why they were okay with all that Donnie has done till this point, but still. Embrace when they have a revelation!)
– Whitey McWhiterson
What Robyn and Betsy said. White people keep shooting ourselves in the foot. It is what it is and pretending that it ISN’T doesn’t solve anything.
Let’s step a back a second.. who is pretending something doesn’t exist? Trust that I know that people keep voting against their self-interests, I have a Facebook feed full of morons that continue to cheer on the bullsh*t Trump does. and I’ve got news for some of you, many aren’t white Americans.
By saying that we shouldn’t put the onus on white people is basically the same as saying that white people weren’t largely responsible for Trump. Nobody said that there weren’t minorities who voted for him, but that doesn’t change the statistics that Trump’s win is largely due to middle-class and wealthy whites.
And I’m white but no, I’m not offended by this because it’s the f*cking truth: we dictated the outcome of this election and we gave our country Trump.
Trump managed about 45% of the vote, his votes did primarily come from whites, middle-class, uneducated, etc. My state voted for Clinton, I voted for Clinton. I am white. I am middle class. I railed against Trump throughout the campaign season but I stood there in disbelief on November 8. I couldn’t believe this country is so backwards that it voted this clown in. Traditionally Blue states gave Trump the win because he campaigned in states that Clinton didn’t even bother to campaign in. Many people in the rust belt states are angry, they have been left behind, they have lost everything and feel politicians have been ignoring them. Many people either did not vote at the top of the ticket in Michigan (90,000!) and others are so disgusted with Washington they wanted to send a message to them. Don’t ignore us. Well look what happened.
That being said, I, personally, am not responsible for Trump or Gianforte. I don’t subscribe to their beliefs or policies. I’m not offended but if Democrats are going to take back the House in 2018 and the White House in 2020 they need to figure out a way to reach those middle class, uneducated, white, predominantly Democratic workers or engage people who have never voted before to register to vote. Shouting at them, pointing fingers and boxing them in a corner will not be the way to do it.
The good news is the Republicans in these races are in trouble.. in predominantly conservative states. Georgia might be the only state Democrats can pick off right now and then comes 2018.
Heard on NPR yesterday that Montana has early voting and the majority of votes were cast before this incident happened. Not that people aren’t voting against their interests, just that this incident probably had a negligible effect on the outcome.
Yep and people were calling the Secretary of State office to try and change their votes and were told they could not.
So, the white supremacy and creationism is totally okay. Then you realize that he has no problem assaulting a white people, then that is where you draw the line.
One thing people haven’t learned. If he does it to others, he’ll do it to them. Everyone thinks their special, until they’re not. This is why there have to be standards-and this guy doesn’t have any.
Good luck to them. They’re going to need it.
I choose to be optimistic as Charles Clymer is on Twitter. Trump win this state by about 20 points. This was 7. You hear that, Repos? We’re coming for you.
Don’t forget that the journalist (Ben Jacobs) was reporting on Gianforte’s financial ties to Russia (index funds that are tracked to the Russian economy)!
I was wrong yesterday, Amazing Character Actor Michael Gaston looks nothing like this clown. He is better looking.
I really hope he gets charges brought against him, and failing that a personal lawsuit for damages. I know it’s a drop in the bucket but at least it’ll give him a headache and tie up those Russian finances a bit.
This kind of things makes me think that Trump winning the election wasn’t a fluke. Seems to me that a considerable part of the US want leaders like Trump, like this guy, strong macho kind of man, more than a stateman/woman kind of leader that actually is prepared intellectually for the job.
Maybe Rubio was right and the US got what they asked for as President.
And after this election, in which people backed a Trump lite guy, why would the GOP support an impeachment? People doesn’t seem bother by this kind of “leaders”.
I hope I’m wrong and Trump is impeached soon.
Do not get bogged down. Eyes toward Georgia.
I’m convinced more and more that white, low and low-middle class rural Americans aren’t just afraid that their lifestyle is disappearing, they are quite literally afraid for their actual lives, even if they don’t come right out and say so. For the first time in a long time – maybe ever – the life expectancy of a white, working-class, rural male is declining, while every other demographic in the US has seen life expectancy go up. Drug abuse and suicide are rampant in parts of this country. Instead of acknowledging how the problem was really created, and demanding their elected officials do something to help them, they wax nostalgic for how things used to be and vote for candidates who promise to bring back the good old days.
Tragically, all of the policies the Republicans are in favor of will only make things worse: gut the healthcare system for poor and working class citizens, eliminate substance abuse treatment from health coverage, eliminate coverage for mental illness, increase mandatory minimums for drug offenses (meth and opioid abuse in some rural counties is vastly worse than in some major cities), lower taxes to the point where local governments can’t even afford basic services. The list goes on and on.
A large number of people I know who voted for Trump are white,educated,wealthy women
Yeah, I’m still scratching my head about that. Wealthy I understand, they’ve got theirs and want to keep it. What I’m still baffled about is how an educated woman would look at another accomplished, educated woman with decades of public policy experience and think that a barely-literate buffoon who has zero respect for women would do a better job.
Part of the problem is that 2/3 of the ballots were already cast before this happened. He might have already won then. A better question is why we allow people with criminal records to run for office.
These people support this kind of violence because they’ve been fed partisan politics that terrorize them into an “us versus them” mentality. They see their way of life disappearing, and they will do anything to get it back.
This one is on you, white people; just like Trump. You talk about black on black crime but what about white on everyone else crime? Some deep, deep seated issues of violence in white culture, it’s worshipped.
Yup.
It is indeed on white people, those who live in Montana specifically. Not a huge margin, but it’s pretty crazy that such a bible thumper has been elected.
I’ve never heard that white people are more violent than any other race/ethnicity, is that a fact?
His election infuriated me last night but today it has me terrified. What the GOP is doing, with this hate, the gerrymandering, and now an entire federal infrastructure behind them, to stop criticism and questions could mark the end of our democracy (which may be imperfect but is certainly better than fascism). Read this article for the news blackout that happened on one Montana channel that’s controlled by a pro-Trump entity: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2017/05/26/daily-202-gianforte-s-victory-after-assaulting-reporter-reflects-rising-tribalism-in-american-politics/59275c2ae9b69b2fb981dba2/?utm_term=.3dd7f33a0e20&wpisrc=nl_most&wpmm=1
Red states are the biggest welfare states in America. Most of them are leech states and are only surviving because of government funding. They contribute little to no funds, but drain from the many blue states which have surpluses. We should give them what they are always angry about, yelling about, demanding, remove federal government from their states completely. Leave them to their own authoritative “alpha” beliefs and so called conservatism. It worked out so well for the south years ago didn’t it? Give them exactly what they want. They would be chaos & complete poverty within weeks.
A friend jokingly said we should build walls at the Continental Divide and the Mississippi River, rather than the border with Mexico.
I bet if you asked most of the Trump-voting red state dwellers, they’d gripe about how all of their tax dollars are going towards services they don’t use or support, they’ve been brainwashed into thinking the government is taking from them without giving back. The reality is they get far more than they contribute.
I wonder at the tacit acquiescence to Trump’s plans to cut corporate taxes (which will greatly benefit him and his suspect enterprises) when millions will be without health insurance and most likely force them to declare bankruptcy when they can’t pay for their triple bypass or leg amputation because they ignored their diabetes because they couldn’t pay for a doctor. The people in the Red States seem to be OK with the rich getting richer and no economic gains for themselves.
Hey if Trump made it, this douche can as well. I don’t get it but I don’t live there. Thank God.
Tbh, Montanans are probably pretty happy about this whole thing. I mean, when was the last time anyone cared about Montana? Probably when Miley Cyrus’s blond wig-wearing alter ego made it relevant. I hear that a lot of people cast their votes early, anyway – before this whole debacle happened. Plus, the state is full of dumb white people* who will only learn their lesson about Republicans the hard way – i.e., by having their Social Security and Medicare cut. If these dumbasses want to shoot themselves in the foot, so be it. I just hope that the moment they realize that their injuries aren’t covered under Trumpcare is caught on camera. I want to see their stupid faces when they realize how badly they screwed up.
* = The author of this comment is white.
As a former journalist, I cried. My mom made me feel slightly better by pointing out that a lot of the votes were early votes/mail-ins that couldn’t be changed. But this is still profoundly disturbing. America is suddenly cool with this assault on the fourth estate.
And he really seemed sorry, didn’t he? What a joke. Trump is one of the main perpetuators of this type of behavior. I honestly cannot relate to anyone who voted for this.
No Democrats can’t relate to winners.
Another point is that we are trying to promote anti-bullying to our children and look what we have to witness from these jerks.I am also convinced that Trump,Ryan,Pence,Mcconnell ,and others like this guy are looking for a plutocracy.They don’t even seem to share the same vision that Zuckerburg and Gates supposedly have for our country and our planet.Well,let’s get busy trying to shut them down starting in Nov 2018.Not only will I vote against them,but I am planning to try and help get out the vote for the Democratic party even,hopefully,looking into ways to help people who need ID’s obtain them without any expense or trouble.These jerks are tumors that need to be cut out.
I could vote Democrat if they stopped layering on more taxes and regulations, got serious about trying to secure the border and stopped trying to dismantle the second amendment. That’s never going to happen so I vote Republican even though I am pro-union, believe in evolution, legalizing pot and not being an asshole.
Do you live in a border state? I have lived on the U.S.-Mexico border for 20 years, and most Americans make insane assumptions about “securing” the border without really researching the reality of the economic-human-ecological-legal space this actually is, the history of the U.S. both courting then criminalizing immigration, the demand for drugs in the U.S. which is more than any other nation in the world? The fact that people here have family on both sides, the fact that the service and agricultural economies are dependent on a border where people are considered humans on both sides and can travel. That the ecology knows not legal jurisdiction and requires co-management between both nation states? That the CA, AZ, NM and TX economies BENEFIT from Mexican money by Mexican national crossing, shopping (i.e., dumping their money HERE) and then going home. Have you worked in a border retail shop? Have you ever been able to make your payroll because Mexican ranching families visit every weekend and leave their money HERE? The rest of the U.S. needs to rethink the inane, racist ideas about the border that cripples humans, economies and ecologies on both sides.
Nevermind.
The way it looks to me … Republicans are about lowering taxes for the rich only, listening to Fox and far right news, deregulating so you might end up with weak metal holding up skyscrapers or poison in the air, food and water. Republicans, friends of the NRA, lie that Democrats are trying to take away their guns and therefore the second amendment but they don’t seem to care much about treasonous acts and democracy when Russia interferes in the US election as long as they win. Republicans are becoming more and more like the Russians … you can cheat and lie to win as Russia did during the Olympics. Republicans/Americans no longer have a moral leg to stand on in the world as long as Trump and his cohorts are in charge. For heaven’s sake allies can’t even trust America with classified information because Trump has loose lips. That won’t make America more secure, that’s for sure!!!! Yeah … build a wall and put it around Trump.
Too many Republican supporters only watch Fox News and actually believe everything they say. Didn’t Trump say everything was “fake news” though? Idiot suckers.
Everything you listed is true and makes it so annoying and scary that they refuse to see obvious facts. Getting worse every day.
Build a wall with Trump and Ryan cemented in it!