Since moving over to the Daily Mail as a columnist, Dan Wootton has spent the bulk of his time pissing out essays crying about woke culture and writing unhinged love letters to Prince William. It’s been pretty intense, from his weird fixation on how the Duchess of Sussex is the root of all evil, to his shady comments about how William and Kate can only be separated by death itself, to the absolutely unhinged “open letter” to William, which seemed too groveling and sycophantic to be real. My point? Wootton is firmly ensconced in Team Cambridge, or even more specifically, Team Elegant Other Brother. So it’s extremely curious that Wootton is suddenly turning his attention to this mess between Prince Charles and the Wessexes! Also curious: Wootton seems to be taking Sophie and Edward’s side over Charles. Some highlights from Wootton’s latest column:
The Wessexes would never go on a publicity tour to embiggen themselves: In the days that followed [Philip’s death], it became obvious to the world just how close Edward and Sophie have become to Her Majesty. And what’s even more lovely is that they hadn’t felt the need to shout about it to further their own PR for many years, understanding their role has tended to be in the background.
The Wessexes have waited long enough: Solid as a rock and low-key to a fault, the Wessexes finally had their long-awaited moment in the royal spotlight. Once the also-rans of the family and pushed to the sidelines, the public have realised just how much Edward and Sophie have to offer. Especially compared to the ongoing nightmare that is Prince Andrew and Fergie – likely forever exiled because of his shameful dealings over his friendship with disgraced paedophile Jeffrey Epstein – or the Californian egomaniacs Prince Harry and Meghan who now seem determined to inflict maximum damage on the monarchy.
Very shady, Wootton: But it seems Prince Charles – isolated in deep grief, thinking hard about the future of the Royal Family and rocked by polls showing the British public overwhelmingly don’t want his wife Camilla to become Queen – hasn’t particularly enjoyed the emergence of this humble new royal force.
The cruel blow: Intent on pursuing his plan for a seriously slimmed-down monarchy following the Queen’s death, sources close to Charles have let it be known he doesn’t plan to hand down Prince Philip’s Duke of Edinburgh title to his youngest brother, as was always promised. To describe such a move as a devastating and cruel blow to Edward would be an understatement.
The Queen won’t be happy? Given that it goes against her husband’s express wishes, I suspect the Queen won’t be happy either with such a blatant U-turn and, while she respects that Charles must reshape the monarchy following her death, she should be listened to.Charles hates the Wessexes: Charles doesn’t particularly like Edward and Sophie. They’ve never had a natural bond since two seismic fallouts 20 years ago [Edward’s TV career and Sophie’s Fake Sheik disaster]. Both incidents culminated in Edward and Sophie quitting private business to focus on a life of royal duty. The Queen has long moved on – she is no doubt proud that Edward is her only child not to seek a divorce – and Charles should be the same.
The brutality of denying Edward the DoE title: Denying Edward the Duke of Edinburgh title he has waited to inherit since before his marriage feels too brutal and reeks to me of cutting off your nose to spite your face. Edward and Sophie represent the type of hardworking and loyal royal currently in short supply. You know; the type who show up to the opening of a community centre on a rainy Saturday morning without much fuss. Their marriage is solid. Their family is strong. Their work ethic is undeniable.
This made me lol: So why not embrace an asset, rather than heaping more pressure on Camilla, Prince William and Kate whose workload is already sizeable? Remember, outside of the Queen only seven core royals now work full-time: Charles, Camilla, Anne, Edward, Sophie, William and Kate.
Wootton goes on to say, in his long-winded way, that Charles should do what his father always wanted, which is give the DoE title to Edward. It’s incredibly curious to me that Wootton is making the argument about the lack of full-time working royals and describing William and Kate’s workloads as “sizeable.” Where? When? How? That was actually the part that underlined why Wootton is making this argument – Sophie and Edward have sucked up to Will and Kate for years, and this is their reward: William is taking their side in their dispute with Charles. William was fine with authorizing Wootton to write this, probably because it further underlines Charles’ pettiness and cruelty (in William’s mind).
Also: “…what’s even more lovely is that they hadn’t felt the need to shout about it to further their own PR for many years,..” They’ve certainly made up for lost time! Sophie and Edward were always desperate to be in the spotlight but they only began making these moves when Harry & Meghan left. Then their PR campaign was kicked up another notch when Phil kicked the royal bucket. While I do think Charles is petty as hell, he’s right to disturbed by the Wessexes being so thirsty. It IS gauche and exploitative.
Photos courtesy of Avalon Red, Backgrid.
Yes, because Charles is going to take the advice of Daily Fail columnist? Wootton gives himself too much credit. I hope he keeps the DoE dukedom, it will serve Sophiesta right for being a bih.
I support you
I think it’s dawning on Sofiesta that she chose the wrong side. Anyone who is sh@@t to their brother and throws his mother under several buses for the optics will hardly be lovely to you.
Good. I hope the realization keeps her up at night.
This whole brangle is nothing but a money scramble. These people aren’t ‘royal,’ they’re just a bunch of money-grubbing ne’er-do-wells.
I agree with @ME that this is ultimately a money scramble.
But this article in particular to me is sending two messages:
– “proud he didn’t get a divorce”: tread carefully, Beard of Wessex, cause we know the deal
– “Andrew forever tainted”: shut up Fergie and Andy, if I’m willing to do this to Edward imagine what I’ll do to you
What side? They’re all screwed if they’re not the heir. They’re at the heir’s mercy so they always need to suck up. Even if they suck up to Charles now there’s no guarantee he won’t be a petty idiot. Harry made a great decision by getting away and trying to earn his own money in his prime.
I’m sorry this is all so fucking funny to me. Grown ass humans having a tantrum because they won’t be named chief dukeypoo of sparkleland. I mean, come the fuck ON. This is all just make believe.
Ha! Word, GRUEY!
“chief dukeypoo of sparkleland”
DED
I believe the royals refer to Scotland as tartan disney. Get your facts straight
The shade and bs that can be thrown at the Wessexes! They are both dreadful. Both fame hores like the Yorks. And at the end of the day, it’s Charles choice. Stupid Eddy should have done the full dukedom when he married. He’s always been dumb. No surprises.
Absolutely right. Edward could have had a dukedom at his marriage. He decided he wanted his artsy Earldom. Now he’s left begging for Edinburgh, when it’s rightfully Charles. Tbh, I don’t care one way or the other, but Charles is right to be pissed at the Wessexes’ behavior.
Absolutely agree. Wessexes have acted in a shameful way for much of their married years
They’re just money grubbing fame whores.
She is particularly bad if you remember the Sophie tapes? but when it’s come to the Cambridges, .I really think they totally misread the room.
Excuse me, I’ll be right back, I’m dying laughing over the bit about Will and Kate having “sizeable” workloads.
….
Okay I’m back. So this part:
Edward and Sophie represent the type of hardworking and loyal royal currently in short supply. You know; the type who show up to the opening of a community centre on a rainy Saturday morning without much fuss. Their marriage is solid. Their family is strong. Their work ethic is undeniable.
That all seems like a dig at the Cambridges, in his Wootton way. That’s exactly the kind of work William and Kate refuse to do. Their marriage is not solid. Their family is not strong. Their work ethic is not undeniable. It really seems like he’s saying, “we need the Wessexes because the Cambridges won’t do this.”
Overall, it definitely seems the Wessexes have overplayed their hand in the past few months. They are pushing themselves out there so much and while I think a lot of it was with Charles’ permission (“yes give an interview”) I think a lot of what was actually said was not expected – about how Phillip would WANT Them to be out there, Oprah who? etc.
I completely agree. I see the hand of Cain all over that column but he should tread carefully. His dad is not to be underestimated. Charles doesn’t just knowknows where all the bodies are buried.
Agreed
Becks , always so correct with your assessments.
I didn’t think about it like that but this is interesting. And you’re right. The Wessexes are boring but dependable. They do those “bread and butter” engagements W&K refuse to do (and someone does need to do them and they are important). And other than the “is Edward gay?” (which really isn’t brought up anymore), there aren’t any other rumours about the state of the marriage (again the same can’t be said for W&K).
Yeah this is Will-Di Amin at work. His sloppy fingerprints are all over it. I doubt Charles would want this story out there at this time, a hot minute after Philip just passed. It’s doesn’t make him look good and it’s tacky.
I don’t know if this is coming directly from W&K. If it is, Wootton is putting his own spin on it. If we think that William is the one pushing the whole “give the DoE title to Louis”, then this article doesn’t make sense because its all about how it should go to the Wessexes as promised.
If anything, this makes me think that Wootton is yanking Will’s chain a bit here and reminding him that there is a payment due on the invisible contract.
@Sofia says
“They do those “bread and butter” engagements W&K refuse to do (and someone does need to do them and they are important).”
Ah…..I see that the narrative that the royals do “important work” has been swallowed whole.
Do you know what happens in countries that dont have hi-profile welfare recipients, when theres a new building to be opened or an organization’s long-service award event to be held or ground to be broken for a new building, etc…? They invite someone from the society who has a national/high profile, usually one with a portfolio or background or some other known interest in or related to the topic of the event and they usually deliver a speech that contributes to any discussion or debate thats already occurring in the society and its usually covered by the news and/or business, commerce, health, education, sports, politics, etc segments of the media.
What do the royals do that advance any aspect of british society? As everyone can see, the only thing the royals are good for is being a strain on the nation’s purse and keep britain forever looking backwards to a time when even fewer of them were rich and the masses were poor and without rights.
@JT, I agree this has Will’s non working man hand prints all over it along with Wootton’s exaggerating style. Sizeable workload for Will & Kate.hahahahaha It seems these recent stories about the DoE title are a false concern and more a deflection from Will’s hypocrital racist comments (and all the other terrible, abusive, racist comments and behavior). Charles can’t do anything about the title at the moment anyhow. I’m having a hard time believing his people at CH are leaking anything.
Wootton is throwing shade at H & M. They are not now determined or ever were determined to damage the monarchy. Sorry not sorry Dan that Harry & Meghan are simply too naturally charismatic that they couldn’t turn off their natural light that they out shown W & K. It must suck to be a fan of W & K because they will never have the “It” factor. Wootton seems to continuously be submitting his application to Will for the future job of being his press secretary.
@AGreatReckoning: “Will’s non-working man hands” 😭
Yesterday, There was an article in “The Mirror” pushing QEII’s favorite grandchild, Louise, as a part-time royal now and a full-time Royal as soon as she completes University.
I am not making this up!
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/queens-favourite-grandchild-lady-louise-24525160
Sophie should get a University education instead of her parents even thinking of her being a “working royal.”
@Bay So much for the slimmed down monarchy. This is ridiculous. They better make sure Louise has a plan b because she doesn’t need to living off of the crown. Sophie’s position is barely secure, why are they bringing their kids into it? And besides, I don’t think the Wessex family as a high enough profile to be honest. The RF needs to remain relevant and most people barely think of Sophie and Edward.
QEII gets a new favourite grandchild each week. If that girl and her parents have sense, they will keep a low profile.
Charles won’t allow Beatrice and Eugenie to be working Royals. Why would he suddenly allow Louise. It’s funny to me that anyone thinks there will be added interest in her. From what I can tell, Louise doesn’t seem like she’ll be falling out of night clubs and causing “scandals” anytime soon. Which is why Zara, Beatrice, and Eugenie were covered by the tabloids. I don’t see interest in Louise happening simply because she is getting older. What will they write? Breaking news: Lady Louise drove her carriage at Windsor while on break from uni? No one is reading that.
That’s ridiculous. How far down is Louise in the succession? She must be about 15th, and will keep sliding down the list. She seems like a sweet girl but she’s irrelevant, in BRF terms.
@JT – My theory is that Louise is being pushed by the British Tabloids as a working Royal. The tabloids need working royals to cover and they prefer them young (as in under 35).
Due to Andrew problems, the York Princesses can never be working royals and the Tabloids, especially in the UK, do not want cover the Yorks in any way as they do not want to be forced into any type of police investigation or government inquiry. Harry and Meghan have left the building. The Cambridge kids are too young so that only leaves Lady Louise (maybe Princess Louise in four years) to fill the gap of blank tabloid column inches.
Also, Louise generates a good number of comments, many more than I would guessed. They comments are 90% negative (all tabloid comments appear to be) but she does generate click$ for revenue$.
Always bear in mind that sometimes the tabloids just make stuff up out of think air because they have space to fill and clicks to bait.
She’s too far down the line of succession and not pretty enough to sustain tabloid interest.
@TeeCee…yikes. I think Louise is actually very pretty, it’s just that she still seems to be in the end stages of that awkward adolescent period, and basically *everyone* (with a handful of very lucky exceptions 😒) has a few years in which they’re the opposite of photogenic. I cringe when I see photos of myself around that age and don’t think we should be too harsh about her looks. She’s still just a kid, and she didn’t ask to be born into this sh!tshow of a “family.”
Besides, I actually think Louise is going to be a real beauty, once she gets a little older and outgrows this phase. Which is unfortunate for her, because imo the tabloids *will* start making her life hell if she blossoms into a gorgeous young woman who they can stalk and terrorize.
@Bay ITA that she fits the bill for the tabloids; they need someone young to cover and unfortunately for her, she’s sort of the only eligible royal in that age group, for the reasons you explained. She’s a pretty blonde, and they’re desperate for content.
I’m sure that those vile editors are positively salivating at the thought of George and Charlotte reaching the age in which they’re old enough to start covering.
Personally I hope that Louise is left alone and allowed to live her life privately, without press intrusion. Considering how thirsty her parents are, though, and how clearly they think it’s time for the spotlight to shine on the Wessexes…I don’t know. I hope that at the end of the day, Sophie values her daughter’s wellbeing over media attention.
If I were going to make one criticism of Harry and Meghan while they were still working royals, it would be this. And it’s not personal, as I include William and Kate in this too, and Beatrice and Eugenie if they were working royals – you could argue that H&M, or Meghan specifically, simply didn’t have time to start doing it. But someone needs to do the boring, bread and butter stuff like opening hospitals, attending village fetes, awarding small-scale prizes etc. that don’t attract celebrities or make the front pages of the newspapers (although if a famous enough royal like Meghan were to do these things, they would automatically get news coverage). Somebody needs to go out and meet ordinary boring unphotogenic people and thank them for their contributions to British society all over the country on a daily basis. It’s not sexy or glamorous but it is important and necessary if we’re to continue to justify a monarchy and the cost of it, and inculcate a sense of love (ha!) and loyalty towards the royal family. And I say this as someone who would happily abolish the monarchy and aristocracy entirely.
@Jane H&M did quite a bit of bread and butter engagements from what I saw. Obviously they weren’t there for long, but I don’t think they had an issue with it. Besides, they are great with people so it wasn’t a huge task for them. They seemed to work more like Charles, balancing large projects with the day to day aspect of royalty like the bread and butters. It’s the Keens who’ve always bristled at the mere thought of cutting the ribbons, which is why the make up fake projects.
I agree. I think we would have seen more of this type of work from Meghan had she continued being a working royal – I think she would have done a good job of including the bread and butter engagements while also putting out significant projects. It’s sad to think of what might have been, when you consider what she was able to do in the short time she was there (and while she was a working royal, she was pregnant and had a child, maternity leave, and still completed three international tours, two of which were very significant time wise and travel wise.)
But its going to be a problem for W&K going forward because they have zero interest in the bread and butter engagements and have said as much. And they aren’t really putting out big projects to make up for that, or projects that really help their charities(The way the Smart Set directly benefited Smart Works.) They just aren’t planning on working anywhere near the levels of Anne or Charles, and that’s going to be a problem for them I think.
In all fairness, I think Sophie did more than a fair amount of Bread-and-Butter engagement. WE just never heard about as her engagements were not heavily covered by the tabloids.
@Jane – I agree with you 100%. The “Royal Firm” as a whole needs to do more Bread-and-Butter stiff and they need to come up with an efficient way to allocate resources and achieve this goal.
I agree. I think all the working royals (and since Beatrice and Eugenie aren’t working royals they don’t need to do anything) should do those engagements. Yes the projects are great and glamorous but it’s those engagements that let “ordinary” people meet royals which in turn drives affection for it.
Before everything went to sh!t, I always thought that H&M would slide into that role. They would do their projects but they would also do the museum opening engagements and be the ones sent to every royal wedding like the Wessexes.
H and M did those engagements over the short time they were working together but between several tours, pregnancy etc when was there time. Now ask that question in a genuine way of will and Kate over 10 whole years? Bit disenguous of you, right?
But – were H&M asked to do many bread and butter engagements? No doubt they had control over engagement requests connected to their official patronages. How does the request process work though, for a royal to show up at something nonspecific, like a local festival or opening of a building? Seems like that’s something that would be handled at a higher level, which means, someone else would have made a decision whether or not to request that H&M perform that engagement, which makes room for someone else to decide how that might look re: W&K…
Not sure that’s fair as in the approx 2 years Meghan was a working royal (9 months of which she was pregnant) not only did she do 4 international tours but she did quite a lot of the bread & butter engagements such as visiting schools/colleges, theatres, community centres, unveiling plaques etc when Harry& Meghan would do those big day outs to places like Bristol, Birkenhead & Sussex or visiting barracks for Remembrance Day etc. She also did private visits to charities& to that school in Nottingham. on top of that Harry did quite a few solo schools, hospitals& memorial unveiling engagements.
Suggests their working royal life might have been mix of international & local tours focused on bread & butter engagements & specific projects. They also apparently wanted to do more but overshadowing fears wouldn’t permit that.
I’m going to go with windyriver and Calibration and ABritGuest. Their time as a working royal married pair was extremely short and they did do some of those events, but along with pregnancy and their tours it just wasn’t enough time to make it a huge focus although they did do several.
And I have the feeling they were not asked by the courtiers or allowed by the Palace to do those things. Remember how Meghan said they were never asked to do a baby photocall in the first place? And how they kept saying she was “everywhere” and they wanted to limit it…
Meghan would have made sure to include bread and butter events with POC and you know the British press and establishment would grouse about that. Bread and butter only counts with these people when the folks involved are white.
You’re wrong.
It’s a dig at the Sussexes.
Wootton is anti Harry & Meghan to the core and this piece is as usual taking jibes at the Sussexes.
From calling them egomaniacs, to saying how the Wessexes don’t have to announce their relationship with the Queen for PR.🙄
Now which family members have been accused by courtiers of sucking up to the Queen publicly, while trashing the institution??
Which palace has been feeding that very narrative to both the Torygraph & the Times.🤔🤔
In fact, that’s the same spiel Cameltoe Tominey used to attack the Sussexes with the help of the courtiers. Accusing them of only interested in doing glamorous stuff.
Dan Wootton will NEVER attack the Cambridges.
You just need to see the radio silence over their diplomatic disasters to see the invisible contract.
All the right wing press are firmly team Walmart & Kmart, as long as TOB keep feeding him stories.
Everything Wootton writes is a dig at the Sussexes, that goes without saying.
but he absolutely attacks the Cambridges, its just in these very subtle ways. Remember the weird story about their anniversary that seemed vaguelty threatening, referencing “bumps in the road” etc. Remember that Wootton was the first one to break the “rural rival” story. He’s not team Cambridge. Right now he’s team anti-Sussex and team Dan Wootton.
I cannot believe I am taking-up for the trashy scumbag tabloid reporters but I believe they write what they are told to write to get a paycheck.
I think all these tabloid hacks know the truth (about the Sussexes, about the Cambridge marriage with Rose Bushing, about Andrew with ?????……etc…etc…) but they have to write what they are paid to write or can get published (such as Robert Lacey) so they take a grain of truth and spin it into a story their editors/ publishers want written and published. They are doing what they are doing to generate revenue$ for their own bank accounts. They are earning a living.
Footnote: Robert Lacey is married to a “trop drawer” titled aristocrat. It is an interesting rabbit hole to go down if you have the time.
Jegede, I think there was shade to the Cams. Am I the only one who immediately thought of Keen Kant when the embiggening sentence was used? I tend to agree that this was a lot of shade against the Cams, so what is Wootton warning them about?
@Becks ITA that at the end of the day, he’s Team Dan Wooton. Idk whose agenda he’s carrying out with this particular column, but I doubt he cares about the thirsty-ass Wessexes any more than anyone else does.
If, for some reason, a Sussex source reached out to him (stop laughing! I’m just trying to make a point, lol) to strike up a genuine working relationship and he realized quickly that he could make A LOT more ££ if he started writing gushingly positive columns about the Sussexes, he’d probably become a Squad member overnight.
(It’s possible he’s so wildly racist that he couldn’t stomach this, but IDK, so I’m going with the theory that the ££ would be the deciding factor.)
Wooton also seems like an enormous attention whore, so he’ll do whatever he can to keep people talking about *him* (and it’s working; maybe that’s why his love letter to William was so unhinged— even though it looked like it was written by a complete lunatic, it got us talking about him).
I have no idea how I went off on this tangent on a post about Edward & Sophie! I think when you said “he’s Team Dan Wooton” it got me thinking that William shouldn’t get too comfortable; any of his “trusted allies” in the press world turn on a dime if they saw a better opportunity for themselves; as we’ve learned all too well, royal reporters are not people with morals or a shred of integrity. They have no true loyalty to any royal in particular, and William should keep reminding himself of this.
IMO it seems as if William believes Wooton is firmly on Team Cambridge (well, actually, Team *William* because, let’s be real, that’s all he cares about), and I think/hope this misplaced trust will eventually backfire on him spectacularly.
@Saucy: maybe he’s just reminding William that he can drop the Rose Hambury story whenever he wants, to keep William in line? We know that he knows allllll of the details.
ETA: @Bay, I’m so intrigued by your comment about Lacey! What on earth is a “trop drawer” aristo? Do you have any links to point me in the right direction?
It’s easy to have a ‘solid’ marriage when it’s a marriage of convenience . That bit came out in the Sophie tapes. Lets not pretend it’s anything else. Eddy has his own predilections as does she. True ‘royals’
@Bay That makes sense about Louise, but I feel bad for the poor girl. For starters, she’s a woman, so all ready the cards will be stacked against her. She’ll have to be perfect just to get some good enough press and lord help us when she starts dating. I also agree with the press being told what to write. Some of their stories are so stupid, that should be embarrassed. And I absolutely believe they know the truth about why the Sussexes had to leave (Bradby said the public would be on their side of the knew the full story) and how much of a sham the Keens are.
@Calibration I know about the Edward rumors, but what’s this about Sophie’s “predilections?” Go on…
So the truth comes out. Cain and unable don’t want to work, they want all the privileges but none of the responsibilities. So get Eddie and sophie their titles and they can do the work while Cain and unable continue their year long publicly paid vacation on the tax payers dimes.
I think this is the crux of it right here. On the one hand, William probably does want the title for one of his sons, but then again, the Cambridges are lazy as hell. William has been planning on doing the least amount of work as possible and will only downsize as monarch. Kate barely does 110 engagements a year and is already planning her Queen Mother years. The Keens need somebody to pick up the slack and take the heat. It’s not like Charles cannot handle the increased workload. They want the Wessexes to cover for them.
I think W&K expected Harry & Meghan to take over the bread and butter engagements. But, the latter realized what a demotion this was for Harry; besides H&M expected to do much more.
The Wessexes jumped at the chance to play that role in the future. There’s no way they can afford NOT to be working royals. They need the DoE awards, the bread & butter assignments. They are just trying to stay relevant.
Yes, Will was probably all ‘oh crap’ when Charles announced he wasn’t going to hand over the DoE title to Eddie. The LAST thing W&K want is an annoyed Ed and Sophie kicking back on their workload. Once the Queen goes and if the Wessexes are shunned by Charles then the ‘working royals’ list will be down to just the Famous Five…
Hmm. Loving how Joffrey is getting his mouthpieces to move mad against his father. Now he has Uncle Eddie and Uncle Andrew on side, he may try (and I hope fail) to get his Auntie Anne on side too. The thing is anyone who plots against his father and brother is never to be trusted. House of Windsor looks sorely divided against itself.
Aagh… these Wooton pieces – I just read all of these as William gunning for Charles. Baldington can’t outright attack him but let the smear campaign begin. Charles will retaliate … next few weeks should be interesting.
Totally. Let see where the pieces are when the dust settles.
Except Charles has been doing this for longer and is way smarter. Baldimort is stupid. I think Charles is holding back deliberately.
I agree, I do think Charles is holding back deliberately – I’m just wondering how he will give the smack down to William. It won’t be direct, but I believe it’s coming.
I’ve always maintained that Charles is feeding Willnot miles of rope with which he will eventually hang himself. Charles WILL win the PR war, he’s very tactical that way. But for now he’s just keeping in his lane, doing the public appearances and setting up the big chess pieces for when he becomes monarch. I have no doubt that he will drop a bomb on Willnot then, and likely the Midds. I don’t think he’s a big fan of Kate, in fact I imagine he’s disappointed in Willnot’s choice of wife and her parvenu family. I think Charles would be happy if they divorced, he may even encourage it.
After reading the comments about the titles yesterday, I don’t necessarily think that Charles is being cruel. For the slimmed down monarchy to work, you can’t have a bunch of random royals with the biggest titles. So sure, Edward gets the Duke of Edinburgh title, even though most people can barely remember him, but then he dies and it goes to his son. James is never going to be a working royal and will most likely live a private life. So you’ll have a minor royal, extremely far down the line, with one of the most important titles that the royals can give, the Duke of Edinburgh. Over time that major title will be pushed down further with Edward’s line, to the point where the 306th in line to the throne has it. It’ll be even more ridiculous if Scotland secedes. I think I’m with Charles on this. I think it’s best to keep it in the main line, that will have the most prominence or don’t use it at all. (Also I’m not as familiar with royal titles and such, so if I’m wrong apologies.)
Very good points.
The importance of the title is relative isn’t it. I don’t think taxpayers care. Royals do in their world.
I agree with this take, JT.
@Alexandria – I agree with you. Kent is an important historical title too (Queen Victoria’s Father’s title). but when Eddy Kent ties the title will past to his son. The Dukedom of Kent will then become a non-royal Dukedom and a non-royal title. That is just how it works in British Royal World.
I am in favour of giving the title to Ed. Not because I care about him or whatever but I think that since it was promised, his parents are okay with it, he’s done a lot of work with the DofE award and he’s the son of the monarch (even if he’s going down on the totem pole), giving the title is not a massive issue.
But it is to these people and I can see why they would want to keep it (which they should have just said instead of “we’re saving it for Louis”)
Yes of course taxpayers don’t care, I think in this case, they are irrelevant. I’m thinking about the symbolism of the crown itself. Prince Philip was a prominent royal, he held that title for 70+ years, I feel that the royals might think it might be a waste to give it to a line which is already irrelevant now. The Duke of Edinburgh title will be forgotten about if given to Edward’s line; he just doesn’t have the profile to carry it in my opinion.
And yes, that’s what the queen wants, but much has changed since they made that promise to Edward. The RF is dealing with a huge relevancy issue; they need to remain in the forefront. Giving it to one of the Cambridge kids, sons of the next king and grandsons of the most famous royal, Diana, is a way to try and keep the relevancy. The title will never be said again with Edward’s line. The queen is all about sustaining the monarchy, I think she could understand that.
@Sofia – I see where you are coming from but the “we’re saving it for Louis” argument just does not make any plausible sense to me as Louis is second son of future-future monarch and Edward is a third son of a monarch. I do not see much difference.
If the monarchy survives the dukedom will eventually pass out of the Royal Family and become a non-royal peerage title whether the title is given to Louis or Edward.
@BayTampaBay: I’ve said that I think they should have just said “we want to save it in general” instead of “we’re saving it for Louis”. I’ve also said below that I agree that Louis will be in the same position as Edward is in 30-50 years. He might barely be in the top 10 by then.
100%
See, I don’t get this reasoning, about Edward being a has been so lets keep it in the main line for Louis. If it is kept for Louis, isn’t he is exactly the same position to George as Edward is to Charles? So I’m not seeing how that is better.
I think keeping it for George would make the most sense to me and then giving Louis the Cambridge title. I think some here yesterday said that giving it to Harry, had he stayed, would’ve been smart. Harry has the profile and his military background is a bonus. Yes, Archie wouldn’t have been in the main line, but people are kind of obsessed with him, and his parents are already so famous. Even as “ex-royals” H&M take up most of the room she discussing the royals. However as it stands, I think giving it to George is the best bet.
ETA: it’s all so complicated and I’m not a real royal watcher, but I think Charles is trying to think about the immediate needs of the monarchy (the next 25-30 years) rather than the long term ones. At least Louis will be at the forefront, rather than Edward, whose position is tenuous at best. I think to staying relevant many things will cause many things change, including who gets what title.
I agree. It’ll be irrelevant sooner or later and it was promised to Edward, the title was even mentioned in writing upon Edward becoming an earl.
Charles has already floated that Archie and Lillibet will not become princes after he ascends to the throne, regardless of George V’s Letters of Patent to the contrary.
What other precedents might he set?
Exactly. It may be better optics in the short term, but the closest Louis will be to the throne is third in line when William is king, and maybe not even that if George has children by then. (maybe he’d be second in line if for some reason George becomes king and doesnt have children and Charlotte doesnt either, but that’s a bit stretch IMO.) When Edward was born he was third in line.
So if you give it to Louis, you’re going to have the exact same issue in 30 years, where a royal dukedom is set to be inherited by someone pretty far down the line of succession (Louis’ children).
@JT – that’s actually why I think this is more about the keeping the title for George than Louis .William will obviously think that George needs an “important” title for when he’s married. Even in 20-30 years, the Edinburgh title will still mean something and will be sentimental enough to make people saw “awww, Prince Phillip’s title.”
@Becks1 you’re right. Louis is high up now but he won’t be forever. If we look to 50 years in the future when William is King (if there’s a monarchy and he’s still alive) then George and Charlotte are all going to have kids by then (if they do) and if they have 2-3 each then Louis might barely end up being in the first 10. And he’ll only get lower.
So you’ll end up in the same situation as Edward. But maybe Charles doesn’t want or care to think about that and considers that a future generations issue that William will deal with.
@Becks Right? It makes sense to shore up relevancy for the “near future” rather than keep promises from 20 years ago. The Cambridge boys will always have more attention and spotlight than anybody else, because of their line in succession and their family history. Even their H&M connection will keep them in the forefront. An A list celebrity uncle and aunt means more than royalty nowadays. I just keep thinking that the firm is wanting to focus on its “stars” so to speak. I think they are now at the point where they are actually having to face the problems they have created for itself. They needs stars. They need a face and unfortunately Edward and co. just aren’t cutting it as far as recognition. Everything they do going forward will be about maintaining their relevancy and trying to stay in the spotlight. I know Charles and William’s relationship is having I g by a thread, but I do think this is an issue that makes sense to the both of them.
@Sofia At least giving it to Louis would ensure the title’s prominence for the next 30 years or so. With Edward, the title will be DOA.
thirtynine, ITA. This whole discussion is interesting, because as far as I’ve read to this point there is a leaning to give the DoE title to Louis. Which is (in essence) the same as giving it to Edward and makes not sense. So, here’s a thought: Why doesn’t PC do what needs to be done to END that title, so PP is the last? There problem solved. Then TQ can give Edward a different Ducal title, because he was promised a Dukedom. Idk, but it just seems a simple resolution to the problem, because if you don’t want the title to be given to some line that will end up not royal, then do what you can to stop it being given to anyone.
Agree, JT, except if that’s the case then why all the noise about the title going to Louis? He’s also going to end up being the youngest son of the monarch, and his children will be as irrelevant as young James is today.
ETA: Sorry, I hit “reply” to the OP before reading the thread, I see that this has already been discussed above. Carry on!
Also, what about Charlotte? It’s like she doesn’t even count because she’s a girl. No need for any thinking about her future title. And she’s older than Louis.
Why does Dan Rotten think his opinion matters that he needs to constantly shove himself down our throats?
He is the sort of person I would quietly move away from if I ever found myself sitting near him on public transportation. There is something creepy about him.
Same here, but I wouldn’t be quiet lol.
IMO, Dan is fighting to be the main mouthpiece of Cambridges. His ass licking is beyond imagination. Did anybody noticed how he called Kate Guevara in his article about one of sports events? “Kate, the Queen of Hugs”. They try to “warm” her image, although in such ridiculous manner, and he is trying to prove he is worthy to be theirs main tabloid PR. Maybe he is dreaming of Lacey’s career?
Everyone of these social climbing reporters and columnist basically want to be Richard Kay and Andrew Morton and why they resent Omid Scobie, who they think has unfettered access to Meghan and Harry. The Royal family was foolish to give up their voice and not actually speak for themselves. You can tell Dan has blackmailed the Cambridge’s for leaks etc. Piers wanted to be Meghan’s mouthpiece and confidant so bad. It’s about access and control.
I have no fresh take on this, except that I did lol at the idea that denying Edward the title is a form of brutality.
What struck me in the first photo was the look of sheer adoration the woman in the light blue has for Charles. I don’t know who she is – maybe she’s someone – but that look. Wow. It seems he could be explaining how to compost and she would be enthralled. Is he engaging? Like at all?
I know a lot of people who have met Charles (I work in conservation) at various prizes/ceremonies, and they’ve said that he is engaging. I think he does have a genuine passion for his “causes” and that comes through for people. They also said that he keeps his hands behind his back when meeting plebs so you won’t embarrass yourself by trying to shake hands with him. I found that detail hilarious.
My take is that someone snapped their fingers, and so William was or felt forced to throw red meat at the baying RR’s. He went to the Times and made up a story about Edwards title, then went to the Mail with this. Bonus points if he gets the title for Louis.
I’m convinced taxpayers will get more bang for their buck from the Wessexes to be honest if you compare them to Cambridges. But that’s because the bar is on the floor. Unfortunately that’s how royalty works. You can’t choose unless you tell them to get out permanently.
Quite frankly as a UK tax payer I would like to be given the opportunity of not supporting this bunch of braying free loaders and telling them exactly what they do with their titles. Instead I am supposed to be grateful that they only cost me 75p annually and provide value for money whilst caring only for duty and service to the monarch and all that charity work! Give me Mark Rashford anything over these royal brats squabbling about titles and patronage!
The bar is in hell and the Cambridges play limbo with the devil every time you turn around.
Err they are ‘low key’ because the public doesn’t care about them. It’s not for lack of trying over the years.
Yes, Edward is lacking in charisma. Zero star quality. Sophie seems intelligent and grounded but has never been given a chance to shine.
I’d say give the title. I’m not particularly fussed about Edward and Sophie’s feelings about it but if that was what his parents wanted then do it. While Edward remains a “minor” royal in terms of publicity and will only get lower and lower on the totem pole, he definitely has done a lot of work with the DofE award so just give the man the dukedom. There are still a few Dukedoms that Louis can have and the Cambridge dukedom will revert to the Crown in around 20-30 years so they can give that to Louis.
Now if Scotland leaves and they decide not to have royals then it’s a different issue.
Edit: Also eye rolling at the Cambridges sizeable workload
Edit 2: I can also see the reasons for not giving it (a major title will end up becoming more minor and minor) and honestly don’t totally disagree with them lol. Do whatever you want then Charles!
I agree Sofia, give Edward the promised title. He’s done the work for years, it won’t change any of the financing, and the reasons I’m hearing people advance for refusal just don’t sound very convincing.
However, my thought is, Charles must feel very confident in himself to allow this out there, or else it is a trial balloon. As far as I’ve heard, Charles is not popular, and there will likely be a difficult period when the Queen goes and he becomes King. I would have thought ‘honouring my dear mother, the Queen’s wishes, and that of my father, Prince Philip , is important to me and out of respect and honour to them I grant Edward this Dukedom’ would create a clear link and solidarity with QEII’s reign. It would be stabilising as the crown changes hands, when he would want to capitalise on his mothers popularity most, and ride that wave of goodwill into a successful transition. Just my opinion.
Not sure what point he was trying to make, but his line about “the type that will show up at a community center on a rainy Saturday morning” is exactly why Charles doesn’t want Edward to have that title. I believe he feels its too prestigious of a title for a background player. And that’s all Charles wants them to be. They’ll be the new “Rent-a-Kents” and show up at the opening of a door.
What I’m reading: pls give them the titles so we can have new scapegoats who are much more willing to do the work, take none of the glory and more boring in comparison.
you’re right S808- they’re the new scapegoats for William and Kate.
👆🏼This. New scapegoats are needed to be thrown under the bus by the Keenbridges.
This is TOTALLY sanctioned by TOBB and Lazy Katie as they NEED someone to come in and take some of that “sizable workload” (ha!!) off their tanned shoulders! There’s NO ONE else to do it.
Also, they’ll also be dragging Louise and James into the fray as “negative click bait”, although I don’t think “Mama Rose” Sofiesta thinks that far ahead. The way she is beginning to push Louise into the forefront (“SING OUT, LOUISE!!!”) is alarming. And the rumors about James (as to why he is so well hidden all the time) will start boiling. Are they *that* desperate for a meaningless/landless/moneyless title and a piece of the SG that they’d do this to their own kids??
Oh what rumors are there about James?
TOBB = The Other Bald Brother????
The Other BITTER Brother 😊. I coined that after TOB came out.
Huh, yesterday I thought William might have put out the story about Charles keeping the title to make Charles look bad. So Charles wanted it known he is petty AF and doesn’t want to give his brother the title. I don’t care at all about titles and it seems silly but these titles are really important to them. So Charles likes to stick the knife in where it hurts, Harry’s security, Edward’s titles. What’s the sticking point for William then? Bc it seems like he’s backing Edward here rather than his dad.
William may be thinking ahead about other things Prince Charles may do as King. AFAIK, both William’s ascension to Prince of Wales and become Duke of Cornwall, with all the Cornwall $$ are both dependent on Charles granting them.
William cared nothing – NADA, when Charles floated that neither Archie nor Lillibet will get Royal titles – HRH, Prince/Princess – when he becomes King, despite the Letters of Patent. Now, Charles withholding the Duke of Edinburgh is more of the same.
No, the Duke of Cornwall is automatic. The Queen dies, Charles is king, William is the duke of cornwall.
The Prince of Wales title is not automatic though.
The Duke of Cornwall ascension is automatic. Charles became the Duke of Cornwall the day his grandfather George VI died.
Prince of Wales ascension is not automatic.
Becks, Tampa,
Maybe…it seems one kid was born Duke of Cornwall.
@anance I said somewhere else on this thread that Charles was born Duke of Cornwall but that was wrong, I was forgetting that his mother wasn’t queen when he was born. Duke of cornwall is the heir to the throne, so he became that when the queen ascended. Had the queen already been queen when he was born it would have been from birth.
That’s where I find this confusing and why I’m not entirely sure this piece is William sanctioned, UNLESS you consider how this whole thing makes Charles look petty.
Charles – no, I’m not giving Edward the DoE title.
Press – well, that’s petty .
William realizes this is a weak point for Charles so goes to wootton to tell him how HE thinks the Wessexes should get the title, he’s not petty, oh no, not TOB, he would never go against granny’s wishes.
Meanwhile, behind the scenes, William is pushing for the DoE title for one of his sons, but he’s playing the media game to make his father look bad.
I sort of think that’s what’s happening.
I’m team petty ass Charles on this one. I dunno why. Just am.
He should “give” these people the dukedom simply because he knows good and damned well that was the plan. None of these people deserve what they have or what they have access to so that argument is a moot point. But I don’t see this as much different than everyone knowing granny intended to give her youngest her Pyrex collection and the oldest child deciding let’s not do that simply because he’s legally inherited everything because that’s the way the laws are written.
This is some big Fanny Dashwood energy and it’s silly.
If it’s 40s or 50s Pyrex, that’s better than the dukedom.
I love this entire comment, “Sense and Sensibility” reference and all.
Sure, denying Edward the title he’s wanted for years is ” brutal” and “cutting off the nose to spite the face” but forcing Meghan and Harry, arguably the best assets that family had, to flee the country with racism is totally fine.
And I think this is William extracting a price for supporting the Wessexes – you get the title, and your house, but you best believe you’re gonna be attending every ribbon cutting and Danish second cousin’s wedding from here to eternity.
This is interesting coming from Cain’s mouth piece, but I guess they need someone to do the actual work…Is the new game to enrage Charles on a daily basis? How is that going to work in the short term. I can see the W’s sucking up to Cain because, in the long term, he’s going to be signing the checks. But that’s probably a long way off given the Windsor longevity genes.
On an incredibly superficial note – and as a woman who has put on a few pounds as she ages – Sophie!! If you buy undergarments that actually fit, you won’t have back-fat bubbles. She has beautiful clothes that I imagine are costly why ruin them?
Wooten is a weasel, a journalism school reject that shows anyone with a mean girl blog can do a better job. This clown WISHES he had Oprah’s clout and media gravitas. BTW Dan, taking cheap shots and hurling insults like a fifth grader at the Sussexes as part of your job is why Harry and Meaghan won’t grant you and the rest of the Rota coven interviews. Just sayin’.
Charles II was known as the Merry Monarch, looks like Charles III could be the Perpetual Prince. The Perpetual Prince of House Petty.
Ed & Chuck apparently don’t get on. Why isn’t Dan crying about how they HAVE to be close & why aren’t the British press haranguing them to reconcile?
Lol at Dan talking about the royals hard work off the back of recent engagements which have been country fair visits, watching Wimbledon, the Euros and a visit to Coronation Street set. Of course they would have had extra pair of hands who wanted to do more but they were driven out.
Anyway I was assuming this story continues to be a thing as perhaps Chuck & Will want to save the more well known duke of Edinburgh title for Will’s family. But a Will mouthpiece backing Sophie& Edward kind of throws my theory.
I know I have this question has been asked many times but I must ask one more time. Does Charles really get along with anyone other than Camilla?
He’s had a number of close friends over the years – Emma Thompson is a good friend, Lord Brabourne and Rod Stewart are close friends as well. He has, however, been friends with some very distasteful people – Jimmy Saville, the pedophile and Nicky Haslam, a super-rich interior designer who publicly bashed Meghan. Camilla is certainly his confidante but they actually don’t spend that much time together. She kept her home so she can visit with her grand kids frequently — I think Charles likes his “alone time” much more than she does but she respects it.
So which came first: Charles was petty and decided to refuse the title or Ed and Sophie sided with Will against C&C so Charles said “no title”? If the best the queen can be proud of Ed for is not divorcing, doesn’t say much for him. Is it really cost-effective with security, crowd control and the like to have a royal to do things like open a supermarket?
This is what happened: William was already panicking when his father implied he would have to work more for Louis to have the Duke of Edinburgh title in due time when Uncle Eddie called in. ” Bill Basher, forget about Sofiesta attending all those charity bingos and I stuffing my face with Victorias´s sponges whilst old ladies admire my butt- if you do not do something about the Duke of Edimburgh thing, we are SO done with your ass!”
Wootton has delusions about his “influence” in the rf. Charles doesn’t care a fig about his opinion on anything.
And Charles is actually right about this, if his intent is truly to slim down the monarchy. He still needs reliable royal worker bees, though, and the ones he has are twice the age of the future-futures.
I’m sure Charles can trace back to the exact moment TOB heard that the DOE title “might” not go to Eddie. Flash to The Times negotiator and his scheduled call to their Royal News content hostage, Prince Incandescent, racking his brain for something good enough to feed the Rota Rats this week. “The world doesn’t care about Edward and Sophie,” The Times insists. “We need Harry and Meghan scoops.” “But it makes Papa look terrible, you see,” TOB whines. Required to report on a villainous swipe somewhere within the Royal family, The Times acquiesces and prints the story. Richard Kay and Dan Wooten, whose calls to their royal hostage came next, understood that Charles was the target this week, and duly danced. TOB finds the fact that his Papa hasn’t called him this week to complain about the coverage extremely unnerving. TOB was sure this anti-Charles story was going to be lost in the hoopla over England’s win. “A bit of a miscalculation there,” TOB frets.
If they save it from Edward to give to Louis, the same issue will likely happen. It would then pass to any male (seriously, time to change this asap) offspring who will get further and further from the crown with each generation.
I wondered about that too. Maybe they will give it to George when he marries and give Cambridge to Louis. When George becomes Prince of Wales, he would become Duke of Cornwall and then Edinburgh could pass to one of his sons or grandsons. It seems like if they want to keep Edinburgh in the main family line that would be the only way. But I’m just a dumb American so I don’t have a clue how this works, lol.
The only way George could pass on his DoE title is if he dies before becoming King and if he has any sons to inherit it. As soon as he is King, the title goes back to the Crown.
The only way for this title to be inherited down the line is for someome other than William and George to get it.
Charles, as King, will lose it the moment his mother dies and he can make a new creation for it, giving it to another male.
@Msiam, your speculations sound pretty much on the mark to me. The title will eventually have the same insignificance if given to a younger son of the monarch so we’re back to square one. Maybe Charles is thinking correctly about this.
@MsIam – I don’t know how multiple titles like this work either, it was never an issue for Charles because he was Duke of Cornwall from birth. He was never given another dukedom. (I mean maybe he was but not at marriage like William was.) and he was named Prince of Wales pretty young as well (although not invested until he was….20? 21?)
So if George becomes Duke of Edinburgh, and when William becomes king he also becomes duke of Cornwall, is he then the duke of edinburgh and cornwall? the same way william will become the duke of cornwall and cambridge?
(duke of cornwall comes before prince of wales, as in that’s the one that’s automatic.)
So yeah William would become Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge once Charles is King. He would then become Prince of Wales and use that if Charles gives it to him.
If George gets the Edinburgh dukedom before Charles dies, he would be known as the Duke of Edinburgh. Once Charles dies, he would be Duke of Cornwall and Edinburgh. If Charles dies before George is married then I don’t think they’ll give him a Dukedom as he’ll have the Cornwall Dukedom (or the Prince of Wales title). Or they decide not to give George a title at all because he’ll be inheriting is own Dukedoms soon by the time he gets to the marrying age.
“it was never an issue for Charles because he was Duke of Cornwall from birth.”
Not quite correct. Charles was Duke of Cornwall from the death of George VI. Though highly unlikely, George VI could have fathered a legitimate son until his death.
@Bay – yeah, I corrected myself above. I had forgotten that QE was still “just” princess elizabeth duchess of edinburgh when charles was born.
Question re: the entire article (as I refuse to read it). Was Wooten able to write an entire column and not once mention or allude to the Sussexes?
Nope.
The royalists hate this story because it exposes the family to be the petty, jealous and self seeking people that they are and it confirms a lot of what Harry has said about his family and the institution. This story was briefed to the Times for two reasons to put Sophie and Edward in their place and to fulfill the invisible contract that the Royal Family has with press. The family has absolutely no information on Harry and Meghan that they can leak to the press and so Sophie and Edward have been fed to the wolves instead.
Nah. He should keep it. Fuck Fop and Fiesta. It’ll be just desserts if Will eventually gives it to one of his sons. You can kiss up to snakes to gain favor, but the snake will always look out for self.
Why is Sophie called Fiesta?
I wondered re this too, then recalled she is considered the “Ford Fiesta” of the Royals. In other words: boring.
The thing Charles should do (for the monarchy to survive long term) would be to give the title to Harry. To try to bring them back in. Would be great optics. What if he is letting baldingham know he is thinking about it….
Harry already has a Dukedom and has indicated to the family that he has no interest as returning as a working royal. He was stripped of his military titles and royal patronages because he told the Queen that he wasn’t coming back.
I don’t think Harry would want that headache even if Charles was willing to do that. It would just be more fodder for the tabloids and it wouldn’t make sense if Harry is never coming back to full time work. Which I don’t believe he ever will unless William does a huge 180° and apologizes to Meghan. Lets see if that ever happens first. Besides, Charles is focused on taking stuff away from the Sussexes, not giving.
I’m not saying Harry would want it, but Charles could find floating the idea beneficial
So Charles should give Harry a Dukedom when he’s already got his own Dukedom?
I don’t think Harry should go back to a system that abuses his family and gas them at the mercy of tyrants. I would never want to depend on Camilla’s Tampon or TOB for financial or physical security.
If Charles is hinting to William about considering the title to go to Harry, that could be a great bargaining chip to get William to agree on cam becoming queen consort.
“The Californian egomaniacs Prince Harry and Meghan who now seem determined to inflict maximum damage on the monarchy”.
Because yes, the two most hard-working and thoughtful members who actually had a heart, did their job and went above and beyond are the ones ruining the circus that is the British monarchy, not Tampon-gate, or the Sophie Tapes or the incessant amount of racism within the institution ruling the most diverse commonwealth and the constant ignorance towards said racism, or the complete disregard of a global pandemic that had already taken the lives of so many people or that stupid stupid COVID choo- choo tour with two covidiots breathing in everyone’s faces, or the recent offending and insulting of three countries (Scotland, Australia and Italy) from the so called “jewel of the crown and the “most elegant and regal statesman other brother” with their attitudes and ignorance or dad-dancing like a buffoon on vacation when you should be celebrating your commonwealth that you’ll one day inherit or wearing the wrong and sometimes offensive clothing to solemn and sad events of remembrances and memorials or even the PEDOPHILE living in a palace (a lot of people seem to forget that one) but sure, HARRY and MEGHAN are “determined to inflict maximum damage on the monarchy” or whatever with curation of important discussions and involvement in crucial and informative summits and acknowledgement of racism and Black Lives Matter, and their influencing of public to donate to charities, or their determination to work towards providing much needed vaccinations to struggling third world countries or providing money to charities (that are NOT their own!)(basically doing the job of government) or raising awareness of the hard work and determination of and elevating the rank in society of wounded and veteran soldiers or curating a cookbook to raise money for people who’s homes and families have been destroyed through the sheer negligence of government or creating a collection of business wear clothing for women to help in their futures of getting themselves a job and earning better livelihood or properly taking part in crucial round table discussions and not mumbling your way through like a dolt but sure Harry and Meghan are definitely the ones inflicting the most damage, not all these stupid and entities idiots fighting amongst themselves to see who gets the lollipop that comes as a prize of “who’s the most popular figurehead in a country and commonwealth that DOESN’T GIVE A SH-T!!
P.s. please feel free to add to either list.
Wooten is jealous of their money. So is the British press & the rest of the royal family. Surprised he didn’t mention the bathrooms.
The thing everyone stopped talking about TOBB being a hypocritical bigot when they started calling Charles a petulant prat. But actually the 2 things can be true at the same time. Both are just fine with stabbing their brother in the back for the crown. The smallest detail, given the least amount of space it actually the most important one. Camilla will be Queen. And Cathy has had Uncle Gary out for months saying Cathy is the next Queen. 2 women have been promised the next Queenship. And we know which one is actually willing to do anything to keep his wife quiet about the rose bushes.
Two thoughts; 1) Again, hereditary monarchies are gross. They turn families into rivals. 2) And this couldn’t be any lower stakes poker. None of this is going to save the monarchy. They are shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.
The infighting is stronger the lower the stakes.
Yes. We see this in all hierarchies . The smaller the arena of power, the more bitter the fight.
It’s so gross to be crying over not upgrading you title when we are in a pandemic.
I do find it a bit unedifying that these grossly overprivileged people are conducting a fight via the press over who gets what title. While the rest of us have *slightly* more pressing problems right now. We’re still weathering a global pandemic and the fall-out from that in terms of family bereavements, job losses, disruption to education and the economy, mental health etc. I wish these idiots would read the room once in a blue moon.
Camilla, workload? Well, that kind of work doesn’t count. Edward is not “devastated.” He has acknowledged in that past that this is up to the monarch. Why doesn’t Elizabeth give him the title? But they bring nothing to the table but still more white bread boringness. So from that point of view, who cares? Stay, go, it makes no difference.
Elizabeth cannot give him the title at this point. Charles currently holds it.
Charles should give Duke of Edinburgh to George.
Philip/Queen were in no position to promise Edward Philip’s title that rightfully belonged to Charles after Philip’s passing.
Queen/Charles can make Edward “Duke of Wessex” but “DoE” is now Charles, Elegant is the heir apparent to the DoE title and George would be Elegant’s heir to the DoE title. Yes, I know the title would revert to the Crown after Queen dies but if Charles were not to be King, he’d be Duke of Edinburgh, his oldest son William would be heir to that and William’s oldest son George would be heir to that.
Why have Duke of Edinburgh go to James instead of William and George?
“Why have Duke of Edinburgh go to James instead of William and George?”
You said it yourself. The title reverts back to the crown when HM dies so William and George can’t have it unless Charles gives them the title in their own right. William will have 3 Dukedoms once Charles is King (Cambridge, Cornwall and Rothesay) so he won’t need another. They could give it to George though.
William and George are in the main line; James is not.
Duke of Edinburgh should go in storage until George marries and then he can be made DoE by either Charles or William.
Someone above floated the idea of Charles giving DoE to Harry. Why? Harry is in the same position Edward is in. As the Cambridge children marry and procreate, Harry and his line will be pushed down the line. Why give DoE to Harry to then be passed along to Archie, when they don’t even want Archie to have his rightful Prince titles?
DoE should stay in the main line and be given to George; Louis can be made Duke of Cambridge. James will have to be satisfied being Earl of Wessex. The end.
I’m not arguing with you about that. I’m just pointing out why William won’t have the Edinburgh title and I’ve also said in the very last line that they could give it to George.
Edit: And Harry won’t get it because he doesn’t need it. He has his own Dukedom. Why give someone 2 Dukedoms, especially when they’re not the heir?
I’ve never argued that William should have the Duke of Edinburgh title; I’m not sure where you’re getting that from. What I did say is if Charles *were not to be King* and he was Duke of Edinburgh, William would be next in line to be Duke of Edinburgh and then George after him.
The DoE title rightfully belongs to Charles’ line, not Edward’s. Philip/Queen had no right to promise to give Edward something that is rightfully Charles’.
Someone else mentioned perhaps Charles was going to give DoE to Harry to lure him back. If anything, Harry (or Louis) would be Duke of York, not Duke of Edinburgh, except Andrew is currently Duke of York and still alive. And that title is tainted. Louis = Harry/Archie = Edward/James when it comes to DoE: why give that title to someone who will be ultimately insignificant to the crown?
That’s why I think DoE will go into storage until George marries, and then it will be given to him…because if Charles were regular Duke of Edinburgh and not monarch-track Duke of Edinburgh, William would inherit it after Charles’ death and George would inherit it after William’s death. I’ve never said it would or should be given to William.
I agree Emmett. I don’t see how the Queen could have promised something to Edward that was (by right) to be Charles’. And if it goes to anyone it should be through Charles’ direct line. If Edward “needs” a dukedom, I’m sure they can be creative and give him one.
The title was created again for Phillip. Once Charles is King, the dukedom will go back to the Crown. Even if he gives the dukedom to either William or George, the dukedom goes back to the Crown every single time. He can always make a new creation for Louis who will pass it down his male line. If it can be created for Louis that means bypassing the “first born male” rule, rendering this argument moot. Just because Charles inherited the title doesn’t mean his line is entitled to it. Had TQ died before PP, Charles would have never gotten the title.
It was Phillip’s title to do as he pleased and evidently his wish was for his youngest child to be created DoE once it reverted back to the Crown, and that’s also why Edward has always been involved in his father’s charities.
Furthermore, it was agreed between all three (TQ, PP, and Charles) and written down in paper when the earldom was announced on Edward’s wedding day. He agreed and now he doesn’t and threatens to take it away. If that’s how he wants to begin his short reign, going against his word and his parents’ wishes, then so be it. The aristos and House of Lords will sure be reeaaaally happy.
Edward and Sophie claimed to be close to the Queen and Prince Phillip. Then they should have played the role of peacemaker . Instead Uncle Edward proudly proclaimed that they keep away from the troubles faced by their nephew, Prince Harry and wife Meghan.
Then they add salt on Harry’s troubles by saying that they all have gone through negative press intrusion. Edward felt that the troubles faced by Prince Harry and Meghan are the same as that he and his wife had experienced. Really Edward!!
How tone deaf and out of touch the Wessexes are !!!
Didn’t they read the tabloids? Didn’t they watch the Oprah interview?
Didn’t they read the 70 MPs statement on the racist and colonial undertones in the British press coverage on Meghan?
It seems to me the Wessexes have insulated themselves from royal family troubles and society issues on racism.
So maybe Prince Charles is right to hold back the title of Duke of Edinburgh from him for the present.
I guess I don’t understand why this matters at all? Does Edward get more money if he’s the Duke of Edinburgh? If not, why would it make any difference? So someone of a lower rank has to bow to you or something?
The rf are given at birth more in life than 99% of the planet yet all they do is look around to see what someone else has that they don’t. That turns into their only mission in life. Imagine having all they have and each and every one are miserable people. There is only entitlement.
I don’t think this is about the title at all, or only incidentally. I think something else must be at stake, like maybe:
Charles: When I am King I can change the Queen’s wishes
William: When I am King I will honour the Queen’s wishes
I wonder why and what is the real prize under debate.
Yet William refused to honor the queen’s wishes regarding Harry and Meghan. So really, William only honors her wishes when it suits him.
I don’t doubt it. I simply wonder why and what for in this instance.
Sophie needed to set her vanity aside and go up 1-2 sizes in that dress. Otherwise it would be flattering and cute, but as it is, she looked awful.
Or better undergarments.
Oh!! If Shakespeare were alive today! These intricate stories of questionable parenting and inter-family drama are ripe for the writing. So many examples from which to choose. However, we can clearly foresee our Lady MacBeth.
God how I wish they could give it to Anne. She actually deserves it.
No, she really doesn’t. She’s as snobby and high-minded and petty as any of the rest of them are, and she doesn’t really deserve jack she hasn’t earned for herself.
Aristocrats/Royals keep their wealth and position by passing ALL to a Head of House. In turn, the Head of House HAS to take care of his extended family. To neglect that is seens as very gauche. The extended family has to behave, help, and uphold their Head values and, in turn, they are kept in the line of sucession and included. Aristocrats see themselves as a group apart, look after each other and the last thing they want to be seen among their group is as dishonourable.
What Charles is planning on doing is a big F…k to the royal aristocratic code. He is gambling on this paying out with the public opinion, but if the costs are the same, there are many royals cutting ribons, and the aristocrats consider their King to be no more than a man without word, I really cannot see how William of all people is going to revocer from.
Good. Let them burn.
It won’t be Chuck’s first time breaking a vow. Edward and Sophie will continue cutting ribbons.
Charles having a history as you point out has been noted. I did not mean aristocracy would not support Charles. Of course they will, and Sophie and Edward are among them. They literally have nowhere else to go. I meant Charles is not doing himself any favors with different groups of people. The peasants do not care whoever gets to be the Duke or not if the title does not come from their pockets, so they will not be impressed. His family will not be impressed. The aristocrats will not be impressed. This is terrible PR and Charles is deluded if he thinks this whole thing about streamlining the royal family will not eventually bite him in the ass because we know very well it does not mean taxpayers are paying less, just that the Royal family will be doing less and his pockets will be getting full.
I do believe Charles wanted to do with Harry what has been done to Edward now….making sure his son had no other choice than to work his ass off without any recognition, just to get the security and a roof under his head.
Someone on Twitter made a good point regarding the Wessexes. With the way so many rota reporters are rallying behind them, it’s clear that Sophie and Edward are major sources for these people. It was said a while ago on here that Sofiesta and Baldy the First were likely much more deeply involved in pushing the Sussexes out than we know.
I mean, I figured this is probably what the case was, especially after all the stories about how close Philip was to the Wessexes started coming out into the press. All of this is essentially a long protracted campaign to show themselves as “worthy” of the Duke of Edinburgh title, but I can see why Charles might be hesitant about this.
I think Charles is probably very concerned with the Scottish independence movement gathering renewed steam after Brexit, particularly over this summer, where the royals have been pretty heavily criticized by the Scottish press for how they view Scotland. The Duke of Edinburgh is a Scottish title, and more importantly, a hugely recognizable Scottish title, associated with a high profile member of the royal family who has just passed away. There’s a lot of scope for milking public empathy here, especially with Charles taking on the title as a “tribute” to his father, especially in light of the troubled relationship he had with Philip over the years.
Add to this the fact that Edward and the Wessexes are going to get cut from the fold once Charles becomes monarch, + the fact that Edward’s son is likely not going to be a working royal and has never really been in the public eye in the first place, and I can see why Charles is likely hesitant about passing on this title to Edward, and thereby giving up all of it’s PR potential in the process.
I can see him thinking that taking on the title for himself, and possibly using it as well (which he can, even if the Duke of Rothesay title takes the precedence here, there’s really nothing stopping him from bunking that precedence to do what he wants), plus hinting that he wants to pass it on to Louis some day, would give an indication to the Scottish people that they do take their ties to Scotland very seriously, and that more importantly, they want those ties to endure up until Louis gets to an age where he wants to get married.
But at the end of the day, all of this is just making him look a lot worse. First, this quibbling about titles and dukedoms and styles of address just make the whole lot of them look extremely petty and small minded. Second, for him to squander yet another EXTREMELY EASY PR OPPORTUNITY out of his own self-centered attitude is just mind-blowing. At a time when your family’s public image is one of deeply rooted divisions and discord between its members, you’re going to…just do your damned best to alienate yet another family member, for no reason except out of your own perceived self-importance??!? All for a fake made-up title that, in an equitable society, wouldn’t even exist? REALLY!?
If Charles wants to know why people don’t like him even a little bit, this is why. People don’t like him because he is not magnanimous as a human being, and most importantly, he demonstrates zero humility at any given moment. It would be SO EASY to win some points here, with the public and with your family, and heck, even with the Scottish people, if he acted with the barest minimum of graciousness. But he hasn’t. Outstanding.
This is a lose/lose to Charles, but I suppose he , at 70+, used to lose by now. He loses if this is only him floating the idea to see the reaction and then going forward and giving Edward the title because it makes him look stupid. He loses if he retains the title, renegade his word, and let the dukedom be absorbed because this move is not impressing anyone, as this title, as I understand it, does not come out of taxpayers pockets, it is just one of tradition. He loses if he waits to hand the title to Louis as it would definetely show the world how terrible a grandfather he is to his mixed race grandson, who would only get a title for the grace of his great-grandmother.
He loses, he loses, he loses. and again, he is deluded if he thinks because he is not loved, he is above all and can do whatever he wants, because this situation is one he created himself. The only way he would look neutral would be to hand the title to Edward and just wash his hands because he would b e “honouring” his parents wishes.
Yep, the royal family will be on life support after the Queen goes. It’ll be a matter of time.
If Archie and Lilli don’t receive titles due to Charles maybe changing the Letters Patent when he becomes King, why would he allow DoE title to end up with Edward who is way down in the line of succession?! The whole point of a slimmed down monarchy means Charles’ siblings will soon be fazed out of their current roles, just like the Queen’s cousins when he becomes King. DoE title can eventually pass on to William who decides to give it George or Louis when they get married and thereby keeping it in Charles’ side of the family.
The onslaught of articles, makes me think that Edward and Sophie have known for quite some time that he wasn’t going to get the DOE title and they are using Phillip’s passing and public opinion to get Charles to sway his decision. If Edward and Sophie are not apart of that
slimmed down monarchy then I can tell you right now Kate and William are going to cry because this means that they will actually have to do work. I agree that William is definitely on Team Wessex.